Numenoreans attacking the Valar - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the phantom · 02-15-2009, 09:10 PM

Didn't Tolkien say that Ar Pharazon and the Numenoreans had put together the greatest army the world had ever seen?

Now, wouldn't that include any army that Melkor ever had? And the army that came from Valinor to finally put down Angband?

If so, how can we assert that the Valar were capable of dealing with the situation?

And as far as the chap that said "For none of the Valar canst thou overcome now or ever within the halls of Ea", he was full of crap. A Vala is not some special unkillable race. A Vala is just an Ainu, and if an Ainu becomes incarnate then he can be killed.

Fingolfin wounded Melkor's foot permanently. Thorondor scarred him. He was open to harm. So the fact is Feanor and the Noldor were perfectly able to overcome Melkor. It could have been done. They came darn close a couple times. Perhaps they would have succeeded if Mandos hadn't doomed them to failure.

If the herald had said "For none of the Valar will thou overcome..." it would've been more accurate.

Unless of course he was referring to the fact that Melkor and his works and stain could never be completely eradicated by Feanor, but seeing as not even the Valar could do that it hardly seems like a point worth making.

02-15-2009, 09:10 PM	#6
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Didn't Tolkien say that Ar Pharazon and the Numenoreans had put together the greatest army the world had ever seen? Now, wouldn't that include any army that Melkor ever had? And the army that came from Valinor to finally put down Angband? If so, how can we assert that the Valar were capable of dealing with the situation? And as far as the chap that said "For none of the Valar canst thou overcome now or ever within the halls of Ea", he was full of crap. A Vala is not some special unkillable race. A Vala is just an Ainu, and if an Ainu becomes incarnate then he can be killed. Fingolfin wounded Melkor's foot permanently. Thorondor scarred him. He was open to harm. So the fact is Feanor and the Noldor were perfectly able to overcome Melkor. It could have been done. They came darn close a couple times. Perhaps they would have succeeded if Mandos hadn't doomed them to failure. If the herald had said "For none of the Valar will thou overcome..." it would've been more accurate. Unless of course he was referring to the fact that Melkor and his works and stain could never be completely eradicated by Feanor, but seeing as not even the Valar could do that it hardly seems like a point worth making. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.