ROTK - Ultimate Best Film winner

[Sauron the White]

Gee whiz folks - this news would have gone over better on a Star Wars board. I would have thought people on a Tolkien board would have been very happy to hear it.

[Mnemosyne]

I would be a good deal happier if I felt it were telling me any sort of information I could trust! As it is, I can't manage to dredge up any sort of feeling for it, negative or positive, even though I am certainly not ambivalent about the films themselves.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

ROTK cinematically was good, but had way too
many absurd changes to be considered in the
top 1,000 movies (sorry). To cite some, maia
Gandalf's assaulting the Steward of Gondor,
the green slime at the BotPF, yadda,
yadda, yadda.
On the other hand FOTR was very good (and the
only one I really rewatch). If I was an Academy
voter I'd have been hard pressed to choose
between it and Chicago .

[Gwathagor]

Wow, weird. RotK was good, but it wasn't that good. Certainly not better than Godfather, Casablanca, Gladiator, or Lawrence of Arabia. I wonder if RotK will stand the test of time as well as some of those other films.

[Morthoron]

Personally, I would like to see the age demographics of the survey. I wonder if a large proportion of the voters have even seen such films as Lawrence of Arabia or Casablanca, or even have the wherewithal to judge the merits of a great film.

On the American Film Institute's Top 100 films, Fellowship of the Ring is rated 50th. That sounds about right; although I have misgivings for the manner in which the AFI list is concatenated as well.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Gee whiz folks - this news would have gone over better on a Star Wars board. I would have thought people on a Tolkien board would have been very happy to hear it.

Oh come on, STW– you know we fancy ourselves as intellectuals here. Do you really expect us to be thrilled that a bunch of Yahoo! users have voted "Return of the King" TEH MOST AWSOMEST MOVIE EVAH LIEK WHOA!!!!111!!!!

So humiliating...

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Gee whiz folks - this news would have gone over better on a Star Wars board. I would have thought people on a Tolkien board would have been very happy to hear it.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh come on, STW– you know we fancy ourselves as intellectuals here. Do you really expect us to be thrilled that a bunch of Yahoo! users have voted "Return of the King" TEH MOST AWSOMEST MOVIE EVAH LIEK WHOA!!!!111!!!!

So humiliating...

Actually, the folks at TheOneRing.net are doing handstands of joy due to the proclamation, but they have always been more film/fan boy oriented (not all, there are many serious Tolkien enthusiasts there, but there are even more Legolas-lovers). I think there are perhaps more folks here who are interested in the literature and not so much the films; at least that's my impression. Personally, I don't consider RotK in my top 10 films, or top 20 for that matter. The poor scripting and juvenile plot changes ruined the experience for me. Brilliant cinematography, great special effects, but ham-handed direction and some questionable casting. I am sure you have a difference of opinion in that regard, but we wouldn't be having many in-depth discussions here if we all followed the company line.

[Durelin]

I always get disturbed by how much some of the *intellectuals* here love to attack anyone who insults their *intellectualism*. You've gone well beyond the the usual complaing about the films on this thread.

Get over yourselves enough to be respectful maybe, please?

I apologize, but I really did feel that was necessary. I should have left bad enough alone, but here I am hitting the reply button...

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I always get disturbed by how much the *intellectuals* here love to attack anyone who insults their *intellectualism*. You've gone well beyond the the usual whining about the films on this thread.

But we're such elitists around here, Durelin, we simply can't.

Speaking strictly about movies here and not books. I feel if any LOTR movie should win best film it should have be Fellowship of the Ring. It was far more magical than Return of the King and I thought the script was better than either of the other two LOTR movies.

Still there are better movies that have come out since ROTK. There are scenes that if I had never read the books would jump out to me as ridiculous and stupid compared to the larger story. Example: Denethor's almost Mel Brooks-ish death plunge, how was that not funny? Or all the build up of Saruman in the first two movies, but in the theatrical release he's not even shown..., and why should Merry and Pippin be honored like Frodo and Sam?

As a movie ROTK has great battle scenes and for the most part the dialogue is good (ignoring all and any references to Arwen being tied to the Ring). But to label it the greatest movie of all time is far fetched. In my opinion it's not even the best of the three, much less the best movie I've ever seen. I will still gladly watch it and suspend my annoyance at book changes to enjoy it, but I'd hardly put it above great pieces of cinema like Gone with the Wind, Schindler's List, or even Little Miss Sunshine.

[Morthoron]

I would agree with Kitanna's estimation of FotR being the best of the three, perhaps because there were far fewer unnecessary flights of fancy in that one, and the strong performances of both Sir Ians, McKellen and Holm, as well as Sean Bean.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Ditto for FOTR.

Example: Denethor's almost Mel Brooks-ish death plunge, how was that not funny?

I guess it's not good to be the Steward
.

And there's the worst bit in RoTK, Gandalf assaulting
the Steward. Eowyn was still hot, though.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I always get disturbed by how much some of the *intellectuals* here love to attack anyone who insults their *intellectualism*.

If that was directed at me: uh– you do realise I was trying to be funny, don't you?

*sigh*

'Tis a thankless task. Or perhaps I'm just not– *sniff* – not very good at it... *sob*


*broken-hearted weeping*

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If that was directed at me: uh– you do realise I was trying to be funny, don't you?

I thought so, but wasn't sure (sarcasm doesn't transmit well over the nets, I know this well) - thus, it was not directed at you (promise), nor at any specific person.

What I think we could keep in mind about the Best Picture award for RotK is that, at least as it seemed to me, the award was a sort of "wow, those were all three big movies - here ya go!"

They are pretty epic productions, and good films, all three (of course to varying degrees).

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Personally, I would like to see the age demographics of the survey. I wonder if a large proportion of the voters have even seen such films as Lawrence of Arabia or Casablanca, or even have the wherewithal to judge the merits of a great film.

As Mnemosyne said, I believe, these are Yahoo, internet users, so likely younger. It is just an internet poll, so nothing to get worked up over ye film-despisers. They were/are very popular with the "younger generation" I suppose. And hey, they've gotten a lot of people to read Tolkien's work, myself included. And really their influence on cinema is pretty strong.

Would I have voted for RotK, or even the films collectively, as the best films of all time? Nah. The best films of all time were not "best pictures". "Luke, I am your father..."

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Would I have voted for RotK, or even the films collectively, as the best films of all time? Nah. The best films of all time were not "best pictures". "Luke, I am your father..."

Ummm...the intellectual in me wants to throttle you with Jabba the Hut's chain. Star Wars and its pedestrian progeny are the most overrated films in this galaxy, or even in a galaxy far, far away.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Durelin

IAnd really their influence on cinema is pretty strong.

Now this is a very interesting point. It adds a new perspective to our discussions and lamentations. Nicely done, Durelin.

What has been their influence on other films so far? Certainly they represent a tremendous development in special effects and the filming of three movies at one time was unique. And the cinematography was superb. (But so was David Lean's, to say nothing of the achievements in this field of Japanese directors.)

But what other impact have the three movies made on other directors, on other movies? Can we look at recent movies and say, 'yes, yes, there's Jackson's style"-- or Jackson's influence, or Jackson's mark?

"Inquiring minds" want to know.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Durelin

And really their influence on cinema is pretty strong.

I wonder what other director/creators could have done to enhance/change what PJ did. CGI is great and all, but I wonder what would have been done if someone like Jim Henson had tackled the project before his death. Snuffleupagus has a Mumakil anyone?

Or even how would LOTR been enhanced if scenese like the Barrow Wights had been included? I wasn't extremely impressed with the look of the King of the Dead, so I wonder what the wights would have turned out.