Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Throwing a die? No, it was a free choice. Nerwen stood before her, the one who had attempted to instigate actual discussion. Not the frivolous, not the as-yet-invisible, but the one piece of sense. See what follows.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Well then. I feel cheerful this morning. Phantom, I completely agree with everything you've said about Lando. He absolutely must survive.

Oh, and Han shot first. Just mentioning...

Here and gone in a flash!

Stick shift here I come!

PS: zomg, I've just realized that if Lommy was playing, 'Han shot first' could be seen as a clue! If only...

[/silly]

I think we should start with what is my usual game strategy: systematically kill everybody who might raise a good case (true or not) against me.

Vote Aimè, lest our torrid romantic history come back to haunt me now, as I dangle over Doom itself!

[/silly for real this time]

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Fea

I think we should start with what is my usual game strategy: systematically kill everybody who might raise a good case (true or not) against me.

Now that sounds like a good idea! I grow weary of you being lynched- usually always as an innocent. Perhaps if we made it our strategy to kill your attackers this game then you would survive.

Originally Posted by Kath

clearly a pawn trying to get to the other side of the board by making himself look important

But... but I am important... My mom says so...

*sulks*

[the phantom]

Okay, some halfway serious thoughts early on...

I've never been less afraid of the Werewolves.

Now, that's not meant to be an insult. It's merely a feeling I have based upon the roles that exist. The Werewolves have a Seer to guide their kills! So the Black Bishop dreams of me, finds me a Pawn, and guess what? I don't get touched by them for the rest of the game (or at least until all the gifteds are dead).

On the other hand, our gifteds are terrified of being discovered. Every night the Werewolves will either find a gifted or will be able to rule someone out- someone who they will likely attempt to keep alive during the days from then on as it will improve their nightly killing odds. The Wolf-Seer truly adds an interesting twist to this thing.

All of the pawns want the Werebear dead. The gifteds want the Black Bishop dead. Yeah, I guess the gifteds would probably table their desires if a chance to get rid of the Black Queen came up, as it would cut the night kills immediatley, but how likely is it that someone will be strongly suspected of looking like the Black Queen? That piece is on a team of its own. There will be no sort of teamwork to look for. I imagine the WereBear will be indistinguishable from a pawn. So how productive is it to even look for him?

Anyway, just thinking about roles out loud here.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Shame there aren't kings in this game.... lynch the right person, and instantly win.

Ha ha! Now that would be interesting.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I am the wookie.

What?! You mean I am part wookie? Well, that explains all the shaving I have to do.

[Rikae]

Hmm, did Shasta even tell us whose side the cobbler is on? The werebear, the wolves, or any/all of them? I don't suppose it matters much (especially since the baddies won't actually be rivals until late in the game, most likely), but it would still be good to know. (Shasta? Shasta...?)

Originally Posted by tp

Now, that's not meant to be an insult. It's merely a feeling I have based upon the roles that exist. The Werewolves have a Seer to guide their kills! So the Black Bishop dreams of me, finds me a Pawn, and guess what? I don't get touched by them for the rest of the game (or at least until all the gifteds are dead)

That kind of talk is liable to get you night killed! Or is that what you want? *shuts up*

Originally Posted by Phantom

What?! You mean I am part wookie? Well, that explains all the shaving I have to do.

Having Mac as a father would explain it, too.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

That kind of talk is liable to get you night killed! Or is that what you want? *shuts up*

Analyzing the roles will get me Night-killed? Well, maybe by the WereBear, but not the Wolves. You see, I'm being incredibly self-centered and assuming that the Black Bishop dreamed of me already thus making me safe from them.

But no, I'm not wanting to be Night-killed. Not this early. I've been anticipating this for a couple weeks, and I'm not ready to exit just yet. I'd say starting on Day 3 I'll really start rocking the boat, and will make two or three extremely accurate accusations.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Analyzing the roles will get me Night-killed? Well, maybe by the WereBear, but not the Wolves. You see, I'm being incredibly self-centered and assuming that the Black Bishop dreamed of me already thus making me safe from them.

No, not analyzing the roles... but never you mind that. I think I see what you're driving at now.

[Hansy]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Okay, some halfway serious thoughts early on...

I've never been less afraid of the Werewolves.

Now, that's not meant to be an insult. It's merely a feeling I have based upon the roles that exist. The Werewolves have a Seer to guide their kills! So the Black Bishop dreams of me, finds me a Pawn, and guess what? I don't get touched by them for the rest of the game (or at least until all the gifteds are dead).

On the other hand, our gifteds are terrified of being discovered. Every night the Werewolves will either find a gifted or will be able to rule someone out- someone who they will likely attempt to keep alive during the days from then on as it will improve their nightly killing odds. The Wolf-Seer truly adds an interesting twist to this thing.

All of the pawns want the Werebear dead. The gifteds want the Black Bishop dead. Yeah, I guess the gifteds would probably table their desires if a chance to get rid of the Black Queen came up, as it would cut the night kills immediatley, but how likely is it that someone will be strongly suspected of looking like the Black Queen? That piece is on a team of its own. There will be no sort of teamwork to look for. I imagine the WereBear will be indistinguishable from a pawn. So how productive is it to even look for him?

Anyway, just thinking about roles out loud here.

Ha ha! Now that would be interesting.

What?! You mean I am part wookie? Well, that explains all the shaving I have to do.

Oh, and there's more. They have a Ranger, so there's always one element on the team immune to the Black Queen attacks. The Black Bishop can dream of her, leave some clues and basically blackmail them into helping the team's job. If by any chance they're attacked by the Queen, she is as good as dead, and they can just attack her back - and if she happens to kill the Hunter, he will probably be hunting her, and kill her.

Now, one question for the host. If the Black Bishop dreams of the Black Pawn, will it turn like a Black Pawn? Or instead, like a White Pawn?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Hansy

Oh, and there's more. They have a Ranger, so there's always one element on the team immune to the Black Queen attacks.

I forgot to talk about that- the idea of the Black pieces being at war with each other. Or not. Whatever it is they decide is the highest priority.

As far as I am concerned, were I a Wolf I would definitely not try to kill the Bear, but I would like to know who he is so that I could bump him off towards the end if necessary. That extra kill each night cuts the village down so quickly. Surely you can't pass that up. A Day 1 or Night 2 WereBear death would likely lead to a White Christmas. Er, victory.

My take on the Bear killing the Wolves- I would definitely try and kill Wolves once a certain point in the game had been reached. What point, you ask?

Well, if we're on Night 4 and no Wolves have died, I would say it's time to thin them a bit. But the Bear wouldn't want to attack them sooner as it might cause them to be wiped out too early, and he would lose their nightly kill.

However, perhaps the Bear will think it more important to completely control the night and end the threat of being slain at night? I don't know....

If that is the case, he will gun for the WereWolves from the start and will kinda sorta be an ally for us. But then again, if he cannot claim victory himself, is not the slaughter of the village his next greatest desire? Surely the Werebeasts are all servants of destruction, and would rather see evil win than good, even if they don't live to see it. If that is the method adopted by the WereWolves and WereBear, then they will be trying to avoid each other.

Though that is no easy task, for if the Werebeasts are able to identify each other with any success, one would think that the village would be able to do the same. So how possible to coordinate is it really? It almost seems silly to try. You could try and do the opposite and possibly do just as well.

Everywhere you look- interesting scenarios and layers of strategy. I love this set up!

[Hansy]

I would say the Black Queen HAS to kill the Black Bishop, for her own safety. Her life is doomed from the point the Black Bishop finds her - if he does, sooner or later, the Werebear will die. The White Bishop provides the same danger, in a different way - if they are revealed, and reveal the Black Queen at some point, she can be used as a "hired gun" for the innocents - actually, I just thought it can't happen, because if we tell the Queen who she kills, the Black Knight can just protect their target. Unless they're already dead.

[wilwarin538]

A little something I found:

Originally Posted by the phantom

I forgot to talk about that- the idea of the Black pieces being at war with each other. Or not. Whatever it is they decide is the highest priority.

As far as I am concerned, were I a Wolf I would definitely not try to kill the Bear, but I would like to know who he is so that I could bump him off towards the end if necessary. That extra kill each night cuts the village down so quickly. Surely you can't pass that up. A Day 1 or Night 2 WereBear death would likely lead to a White Christmas. Er, victory.

My take on the Bear killing the Wolves- I would definitely try and kill Wolves once a certain point in the game had been reached. What point, you ask?

Well, if we're on Night 4 and no Wolves have died, I would say it's time to thin them a bit. But the Bear wouldn't want to attack them sooner as it might cause them to be wiped out too early, and he would lose their nightly kill.

However, perhaps the Bear will think it more important to completely control the night and end the threat of being slain at night? I don't know....

If that is the case, he will gun for the WereWolves from the start and will kinda sorta be an ally for us. But then again, if he cannot claim victory himself, is not the slaughter of the village his next greatest desire? Surely the Werebeasts are all servants of destruction, and would rather see evil win than good, even if they don't live to see it. If that is the method adopted by the WereWolves and WereBear, then they will be trying to avoid each other.

Though that is no easy task, for if the Werebeasts are able to identify each other with any success, one would think that the village would be able to do the same. So how possible to coordinate is it really? It almost seems silly to try. You could try and do the opposite and possibly do just as well.

Everywhere you look- interesting scenarios and layers of strategy. I love this set up!

I AM WHITE

He posted this Day 1, and yes I did catch it right away.

I'm assuming you put that there after seeing Fea's secret little hidden message? Perhaps so that when you revealed her message we'd go back and see your's? Or was there some other motive?

Well it fooled me.....sadly. Though I don't know why I ever believed anything the phantom said, especially something so obvious given on Day 1, haha, an innocent phantom would be far more discrete.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Perhaps if we made it our strategy to kill your attackers this game then you would survive.

Pure brilliance.

Originally Posted by Rikae

(or maybe I won't dream you if you don't dream me.... take your pick)

I can give you my dead honest word that I will not be dreaming of you.

Originally Posted by tp

that explains all the shaving I have to do.

Oh my.

Originally Posted by Hansy

The White Bishop provides the same danger, in a different way - if they are revealed, and reveal the Black Queen at some point, she can be used as a "hired gun" for the innocents

I don't understand what you mean. The Black Queen is on xer own team. Surely xe wouldn't let the good guys boss xer around?

Or did I miss something about the roles?

*scurries off to check admin thread*

[Hansy]

Of course it's not good for her, but if she's given the choice between being executed and helping the innocents, what would she go for?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Hansy

Of course it's not good for her, but if she's given the choice between being executed and helping the innocents, what would she go for?

Given that werebears are evil, I'd assume xe'd pick evil.

So let me get this straight: the White Bishop can only PM the other gifteds after xe's dreamed of them?

[Hansy]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Given that werebears are evil, I'd assume xe'd pick evil.

So let me get this straight: the White Bishop can only PM the other gifteds after xe's dreamed of them?

They're a different evil than the three gifteds; either way, they have no choice, really. They can rebel against the innocents, trying to help the "wolf" team - but a win for the wolves is not a win for the werebear.

And I thought PM conversation was banned here... but then what stops the Black Bishop (or a teammate) from PMing their findings and misleading them?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I think we should start with what is my usual game strategy: systematically kill everybody who might raise a good case (true or not) against me.

Don't worry, I won't hurt you if you don't hurt me.
(or maybe I won't dream you if you don't dream me.... take your pick)

*throws a wrench in the works and runs away laughing*

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Rikae

*throws a wrench in the works and runs away laughing*

I just read that as "*throws a wench in the works...*
I blame Sally for this (see post #4 for more info).

edit: correction and link. No x-posting sadly.

[the phantom]

Good to see you again Wilwa. I remember that it was you who hosted one of the best Werewolf games ever.

Originally Posted by Kya

It doesn't count if you are jumping up and down, waving your arms about

Oh, right.

*tries to hold perfectly still*

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Rikae

there is absolutely no point in telling people what they should or should not focus on, especially before they've even started focusing on it.

Originally Posted by the phantom

how likely is it that someone will be strongly suspected of looking like the Black Queen? That piece is on a team of its own. There will be no sort of teamwork to look for. I imagine the WereBear will be indistinguishable from a pawn. So how productive is it to even look for him?

Originally Posted by sally

Although we need to kill the Black Queen post haste.

Maybe I misread the quotes above, but people already have started focusing. My post was supposed to be in response to that.

And to (publicly, at least) inform people of how I was going to try to focus myself.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I have to peace out, so here's my early vote:

eenie meenie miny

++Hansy

Because I'm not in nearly a good enough mood to be nice to newbies for the sheer sake of it, and Nog has a way of saying interesting things on Day One.

[Durelin]

I'm afraid I have a party to go to, so I will be posting and running here... I will be around more after toDay, promise. Unless something goes terribly wrong. I'm a realist.

And of course Han shot first - I don't get why the heck it matters. All it proves is that he's quicker to the draw and Greedo isn't that horrible of a shot.

Anyway...there's already a few people I'd like to get rid of just for the sake of being rid of them, but part of my beef with werewolf is when people simply play favorites...so I'm going to go for as random as possible here.

++Sally

Just looking at who has posted, anyway, I picked out her on some sort of gut-reaction thing. The typical excuse. It's like pleading the 5th...my stomach told me to do it!

Really I quite enjoy your presence, my dear, but...

See you all tomorrow...quite sorry, I really will have more time (if y'all will let me...) after this. Today I happen to have basically none.

Edit: Fea, I have a feeling you and I will be getting along better in this game...I came so close to voting one of the newbies for the sake of it...hmm, perhaps that means you are evil this time (though I didn't actuallly think you were at least by the end of that fateful day for me...but I'll shush, no relevance here).

[wilwarin538]

Alright ladies (and gentleman), I'm here, and wow...

I'm going to go ahead and believe Brinniel, since the beginning I've trusted both her and Rikae, but I trusted Brinn more. Aswell, her explanation as the Queen role just seems to make more sense, Rikae's was almost too safe, yes it did follow the rules of real chess (with Queen having the same role as both the Rook and the Bishop), but Shasta hasn't followed chess roles for any other piece, so why would he change it just for the Queen?

Regarding everyone else, I'll believe that Rikae and Izzy could be our last two baddies, and if everyone agrees to vote for one of them, I definitely would as well.

So that would make either phantom or Mnemo our cobbler, I have suspected Mnemo since like Day 1, so I'm thinking it could be him. I have reread phantom's posts about 54 times and I'm still leaning towards thinking him innocent, and I really truely hope I do not regret that.

So I will be around pretty consistently all day. You should find far more participation from me then from the last few days.

[Rikae]

Honestly, Shasta. A good wizard and no evil wizard. We never had a chance.

I'm completely disgusted.

++Rikae

Go ahead and lynch me asap, I want no part in this absurd excuse for a werewolf game.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I just read that as "*throws a wench in the works...*

Oh, could we do that? Please?

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Mira

Hansy really confuses me. Is this his first game? Because he seems to know a lot more about this entire thing than I did my first game (or still do, as a matter of fact).

This is what worries me--we don't know, and however he answers it could be a lie. You're only a n00b once. Someone who joined the 'Downs just to play Werewolf probably knows a good chunk about the game and/or has played it elsewhere, but maybe not, and he's under no obligation to tell us which way it goes.

If he has played WW elsewhere, but wants to appear as n00bish as possible in order to foment confusion, then that points towards baddishness. And oddly enough, that's the impression I'm getting from him...

It's bad form to initiate someone into WW with a Day 1 lynch, but man, I'm tempted.

I should be up till deadline so I'll have plenty of time to go over all suspects.

In the meantime, Hansy, have you played Werewolf elsewhere?

[Hansy]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

This is what worries me--we don't know, and however he answers it could be a lie. You're only a n00b once. Someone who joined the 'Downs just to play Werewolf probably knows a good chunk about the game and/or has played it elsewhere, but maybe not, and he's under no obligation to tell us which way it goes.

If he has played WW elsewhere, but wants to appear as n00bish as possible in order to foment confusion, then that points towards baddishness. And oddly enough, that's the impression I'm getting from him...

It's bad form to initiate someone into WW with a Day 1 lynch, but man, I'm tempted.

I should be up till deadline so I'll have plenty of time to go over all suspects.

In the meantime, Hansy, have you played Werewolf elsewhere?

Yes. (But I want my newbie status nonetheless :P) It is way too different from the way it is played here, though. It relies heavily on roles; I can't remember the last time I played with plain innocents/ordos before this game, for example, and there are second places (answering to Rikae, which I believe I missed before). You play almost like Mafia - and the way everyone's active, and analyse each other's posts to find which people are lying, it's an interesting approach that I wanted to experiment. I was trying to do my part on creating useful discussion - I didn't want to be misinterpeted as the cobbler or wild theorizer or whatever.

(Though at this point, I should be pretending I am the cobbler. It would certainly be more fun but not helpful, yeah.)

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I think we should start with what is my usual game strategy: systematically kill everybody who might raise a good case (true or not) against me.

Yaaaaay lynch Fea time! The best part of waking up is lynched Fea in your cup!

...Just thought about that. Ew. I shouldn't be allowed to post before breakfast. All right I'm gonna go eat and I'll be back to post something productive. *saultes*

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This version is not so different that it renders the first day's action useful until the second day. That being so, likely behaviour should by now have been considered by hunting parties, and now I for one wait to see who falls into those devious patterns.

Is binn gach eun 'na dhoire fhein.

[Rikae]

There is a disturbance in the force....

Sally made a HP reference on the 'Downs! (So that's why I couldn't access the site this morning).

Well, one thing is clear: we don't have 9 white pawns. This is a chess game, so we have 8... and 8 black pawns, which means there are more people in this game than we think.

++Boro

++Mac

++Roa

++SPaM

++TGWBS

++Morm

++Diamond18

++Mith

Well, that takes care of that.

Looking at the rules of chess, it would make sense for the white queen to be some sort of multi-gifted, although that would unbalance the game too much, I suppose (perhaps not, though, if the gifted wolves can communicate with each other - that would give them quite an edge). Shame there aren't kings in this game.... lynch the right person, and instantly win.

Well, looking over the posts, I see some things that look disturbingly like the last game -
1) Nerwen looking suspicious (vague, safe, and making strange half-accusations). I think mods tend not to make people wolves twice in a row (although there have been notable exceptions), but I vowed to trust my instincts after the last game. I will look at her more closely, at least.

2) Nogrod fixating on banter. Please, not again (although the quote does express the point very nicely). I really see nothing odd about these so-called "confessions" - in fact, I'll add one of my own: I am the wookie.

3) A couple newbies (and a veteran player I haven't encountered before - Wilwa). Of course, I extend the same courtesy as last game - I won't vote for a newbie on Day 1. Day 2 and onward, though, no special treatment.

EDIT: X'd with Fea and my son.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, one thing is clear: we don't have 9 white pawns. This is a chess game, so we have 8... and 8 black pawns, which means there are more people in this game than we think.
....
++Mith

Well, that takes care of that.

[Gwathagor]

Mith! Go invisible!

[wilwarin538]

Alright, my random thoughts, and my vote.

Mirandir: not much from him, so don't really have a feel yet

Durelin: voted for Sally, I find him (her?, sorry!), interesting and somewhat entertaining, inclined to keep him around

Fea: love her and am very excited to be playing with her, therefore she's safe.....for toDay atleast

Izzy: I'm inclined to think innocent so far, nothing's popping out at me.

Nerwen: Seems to be thinking logically, got randomly voted for so I feel bad for her.

Eomer: aw Eomer, voted for Sally aswell, so cryptic, though he has fooled me in the past I'm gonna give him a chance, he's definitely entertaining

the phantom: is safe toDay for me because he's smart and because he said this :

Good to see you again Wilwa. I remember that it was you who hosted one of the best Werewolf games ever.

Brinniel: Don't really have much on her, said she would be back later but I'll be asleep by then, so not sure yet, a maybe perhaps, on my list

Sally: got voted for twice already, had computer difficulties, I understand that, won't be holding it against her today

Gwathagor: Said he's unsure of the random voting going on, though in my opinion that's all Day 1 is about, there's nothing to base anything on so a few people vote random and everyone else voting later just copies or votes random themselves, unavoidable. So I don't know about him either, but he's on my list.

Lariren: Focused on roles alot, though so did most, but posted a fairly lengthy post so I'm inclined to let her be for now

Rikae: Voted for Eonwe, I have a good feeling about her, like her style, for now

Eonwe: (Steve is it?) Voted for Gwath, not sure about him either, posts alot but not necessarily anything concrete, on my list

Nogrod: called me Wilva, but I think I can forgive him for now, seems innocently enough

Mnemo: Confusing, but he's a noobie so I'm not really gonna consider him at all today

Kath: Have some past experience with her, I know that random vote for Nerwen isn't exactly like her, though it makes me uneasy I'd like to give her another day

Hansy: voted for Fea, I too like the way he thinks, and along with that he's new so I'm willing to keep him around

So that's the best I've got for toDay, Day 2 will be a lot better for me and I'll probably be going back and rereading everything and saying a lot more.

So my vote I suppose now, since I definitely won't be getting back on toDay.

For me it's between Brinniel, Gwathagor and Eonwe.

Don't want to bring another person into the mix, so between Gwath and Eonwe I will vote for:

++Eonwe

Hopefully I will see you all next Day.

edit: x-posted, with lots of people