Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Paraphrased, because you guys talk too much.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Sally- Black Rook
Durelin- White Knight
Mnem- WereDuck
phantom- Sauron

Originally Posted by Kath

Mnemo - ducks have been proven to be evil in the past, I'll go with that!
Sally - oh definitely evil.
phantom - clearly a pawn trying to get to the other side of the board by making himself look important.
Izzy - erm, fiery depths? Not keen!
Brinn - I think innocent, therefore guilty.
Eomer - definitely innocent, at least for as long as it takes to see what this new persona is about.
Nerwen - thoughtful.

Originally Posted by Nog

Sally: nothing to say on her but the usual uneasiness.
Brinn: nothing of any special interest; Perfectly innocent sounding and therefore all alarms should be on as it’s Brinn!
Eomer: looks cryptic but speaks sense.
Nerwen: should be more verbiose when she comes in the next time.
Kath’s post is just downright terrible. I could consider voting her just on principle for that; she feels a need to underline the randomness of her vote? If she's innocent that's irresponsible behaviour - and if not, then the sooner we lynch her the better.

Originally Posted by Nog

Mirandir’s and Gwath’s appearances are just awful. Which means: nothing. If one of you is a baddie and you both get through Day1 with that effort we deserve to lose
Wilva’s “be prepared for me to bandwagon” is just odd pre-empting of what’s possibly to come.
Eönwë and Lari are enigmas to me right now.

Originally Posted by Nog

Fea: After not saying practically anything toDay she makes a "eenie-meenie-miny" -vote, which behaviour I still dislike a lot.
Dury: wishes some people to be lynched but decides to be as random as possible picking someone with guts and then trying to explain it away both ways (like it's nothing & sorry Sally).
Eönwë: If you had a reason to vote for Gwath, why do you say it's "semi-random" then? What's the matter with all of you?
Eomer: Finally someone giving reasons for his vote... Although... Now it looks a bit too convenient vote to my taste. You're careful not to suspect others but just imply you have seen similar behaviour around to look good and not to get anyone on you to retaliate.

Originally Posted by Nog

Mirandir - She should have more time to make her presence felt - but if she's not going to do it later toDay ot ToMorrow I'd be glad to vote her out. But probably not toDay.
Durelin - One of my all-time enigmas. I find her vote the most confusing. She could do a bit better as a baddie and be like that in a rush and innocent. - feels foul.
Fea- She's intelligent enough to make better claims on Day1 so a frustrated innocent then? No. The note about me saying interesting things (when there were no other commnets on anyone else in the vote-post) bothers me a lot.
Isabellkya - If there is a submarine-baddie she's one of my top candidates for that role. Somehow my gut-feeling just tells the contrary at the moment.
Nerwen - I don't see the suspicions around her but wouldn't trust her either.
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Speaks sense which is highly appreciated. Still his vote left me a bit concerned about his motives.
the phantom - Let's see his track-record on Day3 or something if he's still around.
Brinniel - not my top worry right now.
satansaloser2005 - no special alarms as yet.
Gwathagor - I'd like to see him post more to be sure but will not vote him toDay.
Lariren Shadow - I really suspect her. But I'm not too sure about it.
wilwarin538 - I think she should have a chance for another Day at least.
Rikae - I'm not going to vote Rikae on Day1 unless I have strong reasons to do so. And as now I don't seem to have one.
Eönwë - A hunker-down baddie who wants to make a presence or just an ordo with nothing to say?
Mnemosyne - Looking at her posts closer makes me feel better of her. I mean her alliances.
Kath - I could vote for her just because of the way she acts - and it's not only a principle at work here but also the particular way she did it this time.
Hansy - Maybe he's the cobbler, maybe he's not.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hansy. seems too confused about the rules of the current game to be a wolf (are we calling them wolves?), and probably too flamboyant to be the Black Queen. Might be the Black Pawn... in fact, he reminds me a lot of Lal when she was a cobbler.
Rikae: seems awfully opportunistic after I'd just been given the first vote of the Day, and that a completely random one.
Kath. Would an innocent Kath vote like that? But then, would an evil Kath vote like that?

Originally Posted by Lari

Mira: I think she is innocent
Durelin: Not sure
Fea: She could be the seer, but I don't think that's her style.
Isabellkya: not much to go on
Nerwen: Hasn't said a lot and I can see that's been because of the lack of internet.
Eomer: He has been making sense.
the phantom: could be a lot of help later in the game.
Brinn: I have no idea. I don't think I'm good at reading her though.
Sally: I can’t really get a good read on her.
Gwath: I wish I had more to say about people.
Wilwa: Really truly want something to be able to say.
Rikae: the Seer banter with Fea could be two Wolves trying to communicate. Or it could be innocents just playing around, which is entirely possible considering.
Eonwe: Nothing.
Nog: Has posted an analysis of the posting pages which points to guilt because it’s easy to find fault where there is none in analysis.
Syne: I think that you warrent watching.
Kath: Blah stupid Day 1.
Hansy: Newbie.

Originally Posted by Izzy

Rikae brings up good points/questions in regards to the Cobbler.
Hansy and phantom discuss mechanics.
Mnemosyne makes a good point that we look at both the wolves and the bear; while not at the expense of on, in favor of the other.
Gwath says we ought to focus on neither/both in regards to the wolves and the bear.
Mira and Mnemosyne wonder about Hansy's playing experience, and whether or not he may be playing up the newbie card.
Hansy. I'm not yet worried about him.

Originally Posted by Nog

Sally- I'm afraid she's the "easy lynch" this time.
Nerwen, Hansy or Gwath I would be very reluctant to aid lynching toDay either.

Originally Posted by phantom

Fea feels fine. Rikae too.
Nog- I would lean innocent for him.
Eomer -what he has said thus far has been to my liking.
Mnem- hasn't done anything to make me wish her dead .

Originally Posted by Nog

Isabell- off my vote-list toDay
Lari looked reasonable
Kath, Fea, Dury and Eönwë. The three first trying to slip under the radar with nonsense and randomness and Eönwë for showing a presence with nothing to say in concrete terms.

Originally Posted by Izzy

phantom, Nog, Rikae, Fea, and Sally stick out most in my mind, because of their typical behavior.
Sally for silliness,
phantom, Rikae, and Fea because they always seem to be the more daring.
Nog because I can always expect to see long analyzing posts from him.
Mnemosyne, Gwath, and Hansy stick out in my mind.
Hansy- I've played with him elsewhere, and curious to see how he does and likes this style.
Mnemosyne and Gwath- something just doesn't seem quite right.

Originally Posted by I accidentally typed 'Fea' so I don't know who said this now

Eönwë "easy option" toDay (alongside Sally); the way he is at the top of the posting-list and has managed to say nothing definitive or particular bothered me.
Rikae- I have no case against Rikae, but her vote clearly fits in with a clever-baddie wishing to get away with Day1 quite nicely.
Kath I'm afraid I'd be going on with a habit of suspecting her
Dury her voting post is just so crazy (three different and almost exclusive reasons given at the same time + trying to apologise afterwards) that it might speak more of her being in a hurry and with no stakes in the game than actually being a baddie.
Fea played it safe + there was this odd addenda in her votepost that I couldn't read as anything other than as a way of trying to contact someone she thought she could gain from.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Mirandir: don't really have a feel yet
Durelin: inclined to keep him around
Fea: safe.....for toDay atleast
Izzy: I'm inclined to think innocent so far
Nerwen: Seems to be thinking logically
Eomer: I'm gonna give him a chance, he's definitely entertaining
the phantom: is safe toDay for me
Brinniel: not sure yet, a maybe perhaps, on my list
Sally: got voted for twice already, had computer difficulties, I understand that, won't be holding it against her today
Gwathagor: I don't know about him either, but he's on my list.
Lariren: Focused on roles alot, though so did most, but posted a fairly lengthy post so I'm inclined to let her be for now
Rikae: I have a good feeling about her, like her style, for now
Eonwe: not sure, on my list
Nogrod: seems innocently enough
Mnemo: Confusing, but he's a noobie
Kath: random vote for Nerwen isn't exactly like her, though it makes me uneasy I'd like to give her another day
Hansy: new so I'm willing to keep him around

Originally Posted by Brinn

Mirandir: I need more time and more from her to get a better read.
Durelin: She is one to watch closely, but I'd rather not see her go just yet.
Fea: I don't have any strong opinions about her as of now.
Izzy: no reason to vote her.
Nerwen: neutral
Eomer: Too mysterious for me to form an opinion on him just yet.
the phantom: seems innocentish to me. That probably means that he is, in fact, guilty.
Sally: looks more innocentish than guilty to me
Gwathagor: I just don't like when someone votes for another only based on another player's reasoning.
Lariren: Has been very thoughtful. I feel good about her so far.
wilwarin: So I'd rather not see her go anytime soon.
Rikae: Not raising any alarm right now.
Eonwe: a bit suspicious, though it's a bit early to tell.
Nogrod: But if innocent, he can be quite helpful, so I'd rather not see him go so early again. Plus, I do feel a bit guilty that I was partially responsible for his last two early deaths.
Nemo: I can't help but feel slightly worried about her. I won't vote her toDay because she is a new addition, but she is one I'd like to watch closely.
Kath: She's voted randomly before and it doesn't point to either innocence or guilt.
Hansy: could be anything.

Okay. That took a while. And it's going to take me a while to go back through again and find anything important.

Remember I'm looking for patterns. All of these are from Day 1 which means that two people were dreamed of (unless the White Queen gets dreams too; I hate not knowing the nature of a role), and there ought to be hints in here. Lists, as people well know, are a good way to figure out somebody's sincerity and somebody's inclinations.

Be back after lunch... sugar crash again...

[Nogrod]

As I saw that tp had already taken the task of cleaning the game board, I have spent my day polishing you pieces. And how nicely you shine now!

Okay. We really need to get that Black Queen, pronto. I don't know if there's any way or method to it as it would be really easy to hide being there alone. Well, I say look at the most agreeable people; those who are the least controversial as in a tough place one tends to not vote for the one whom s/he feels more at ease with or who rubs you the right way. And the BQ has all the chances to play like that as she shouldn't know anything more than we do.

I mean the trio knows each other and may be tempted to cover each other in a tight place or anyhow take stance on people whose role they know. And that normally gives one leads into suspecting someone. But to stop this double-killing we'd need to get all the three first!

So the BQ would be top on our agenda. The problem being that finding her out is more up to luck than our abilities. And meanwhile the trio gets knowledge everyNight by their bishop...

Well, let's heighten our spirits a bit.

Short count says that if we get all the three wolves in succesive Days beginning toDay, we're rid of the wolves and will only have one kill / Night after Day4. At that point - with no special help (eg. BQ killing one of the baddies for us, the Knight protecting someone succesfully...) we'll start Day5 with 6:1 ratio - which is not too bad.

But if we miss a single baddie during the next three Days the ratio becomes pretty tight. One miss in the following Days leads to the ratio of 4:2 on the beginning of Day5! Missing the lynch then would practically mean defeat.

So, summa summarum: of the next four lynches we basically have to lynch right three times. Otherwise we're dead meat (unless lady Fortuna aids us during the Nights). Unless we get the BQ... Nice scenario, isn't it?

I'm trying to go back and see whether there is anything worth pointing out in posting toDay & on the votes etc. from yesterDay.

[Rikae]

Where is everyone?

Fea, the list you listed as being listed by Fea is by Nog.

Lari, what do you mean, you shouldn't defend your vote?

Seriously, people, we all need to talk. Back in a bit with something (hopefully) more helpful.

[Rikae]

Ah, but another thought:

Not sure why Nog is bemoaning the bleakness of the scenario like that. After all, the wolves and werebear could very well kill each other, the WQ may be able to kill them, and the ranger's chances of stopping a kill go up every night.
I would say it's extremely unlikely that no baddies will die by night in the next 3 days and they will manage to kill two innocents per night... at any rate, there are simply too many variables to predict the state of things on day 5. Maybe you're trying to rally people not to waste the lynch, which is reasonable enough, but painting the situation as nearly hopeless will just demoralize the village.

EDIT: X'd with Noggie.
A pretty far-fetched theory, and one that might help the evil side. I doubt Shasta would fail to make it clear, in that case, which role was responsible for which kill.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Maybe you're trying to rally people not to waste the lynch, which is reasonable enough, but painting the situation as nearly hopeless will just demoralize the village.

I was painting it as hopeless in an ironic tune. I'm not sure if I managed it - seemingly not. But the real point was, as you say, rallying people to get into this and not to think that as we have so many people around we can just look and see what happens.

I doubt Shasta would fail to make it clear, in that case, which role was responsible for which kill.

I don't think that is anything like evident. It could well be that it is not revealed, at least openly.

Looking at the kills this far...

Shasta - Ke3xe4, Night 1 (Moderator)
Gwathagor - d3xe4 (Lynched), Day 1 (White Pawn)
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Qd8xh4 (Killed), Night 2 (White Pawn)
Nerwen - Bc8xa6 (Killed), Night 2 (White Rook)

... might hint that last Night's kills were done by the baddies as the starting positions of the killers are Qd8 and Bc8 meaning the black opening side. But the lynch yesterDay was made from d3 meaning a pawn from d3 which exactly isn't anyone's starting position in a game of chess anyway - and neither is the killing of Shasta in the beginning (Ke3). So the initial position of a piece clearly is not the thing grants us firm knowledge of who the move-maker is as the possible position of the pieces in the board is not the opening set up anyway * (we don't even have all the pieces in the game to begin with), and if it's not, we have no way of telling what the board looks like and which piece is where.

Okay. Like I said, this is just an idea and we might need to revisit it on later Days if trying to figure out the reasoning behind the kills will give us problems but right now I'm not sure this merits too much pondering as it's immeadiate helpfulness toDay is doubtful.

EDIT: * and the killed piece seems to have been way out from it's initial position everytime someone has been killed...

[Isabellkya]

If Phantom was sweeping, and Nog was polishing - then I was staring off into space pretending to do whatever task I was supposed to be doing. xD

That is clever. At first look, the position notations seem to be close to gibberish to me.

I don't think Shasta could quite keep it perfectly accurate every time.
Since each piece can only move in a certain way, by technicality.
So, in theory - wouldn't he make it as accurate as possible. So in the killing blows, the move to take the piece was akin to that of its moving constraint?


X'd with Wilwa

[Rikae]

I took a closer look at Izzy...

Post #26 – Banter

#79 – Explaining Hansy

#89 – Jokes with tp, argues against discussing white queen's role:
“In reality, what good would it be to in-depthly theorize about what the White Queen may or may not be able to do?
We won't know (I assume) until the game is over. So, what kind of help is that going to lend us; when dealing with the evilies that we do know about?”

Probably more good than Izzy is doing at this point, I reckon.

#95 more joking with tp

#133
Doesn't want to vote randomly, although she otherwise would, because “it feels too much like bandwagoning” with so many others doing it. I don't like this. It could very easily mean “it looks too much like bandwagoning – those who did it are getting pressure, and I want to play it safe”
A lot of descriptions of what's been going on, with no substantial commentary.
Repeats my question about the cobbler, for no apparent reason. Also creepy – a bit “hey! Cobbler! Over here!”.
A lot of agreeing with (no offense, Gwath and Mnemi) pretty empty statements about looking for the wolves and bear... then goes after Mnemi for bringing it up:
“I have a question Mnemosyne. If dwelling too much on The White Queen would be baddie like behavior, or giving them ideas. Well what is bringing back up a topic from two pages ago? Wouldn't that be in the same realm?”
Says Hansy's ideas are not outlandish. I assume you mean the bit about cheating? Hmph.

#141 – Gwath is worrying her with short posts (note, this is after he has received his first vote and some suspicion). Backs off Mnemi. Now the really weird part:
instead of listing suspects and presumed innocents, she lists people who “stick out in” her mind. The reasons she gives are strange, too – me, Nog, Phantom, Fea and Sally for our usual behavior (is this an attempt to insinuate that we're suspicious because of our “usual behavior” without saying so, or what?) and Hansy, Mnemi and Gwath – only the latter two because she suspects them, though.

#146 More going after Gwath for short posts and banter.

#175 Explaining self to Nerwen

#196 Doesn't find Fea suspicious. Votes Gwath, saying:
“I am going to stick with my earlier doubts. It may be your style, which I can't blame you for. I had a brief chance to try and sift through your past games - and only had time to quickly go through your most recent one's first Day. You seemed to be a bit more aggressive in it, than you are here. What that says, not entirely sure. I'd rather vote for one I've got doubts on, than leave it to a toss of a die.”

#206 Vote count

#214 Minor comments

Conclusion: Bad. Wolf. Bad. Wolf.

EDIT: X'd with Wilwa and Izzy.

[the phantom]

*phew*

Polishing the game board is hard work. But it's looking nice and shiny now, so I can finally take a proper look back at the previous moves and give my take on the vote, why the kills were made, who Nerwen might've been hunting, etc.

Don't expect a post extremely soon though. I'm just now starting my reading.

[Hansy]

Okay, after reading Day 1 up to my last post, I think that, had I done it earlier, I would've probably voted for Sally. She's done basically the same as last game - besides that, instead of disappearing after the banter, she vaguely comments stuff that has been discussed already - thus adding nothing useful, maybe trying to look good. That's mostly post #73.

I think Nogrod is evil. I don't quite know why I feel that way; I'll look him again, trying to find it out.

The Fea/Nogrod case; she was seeing clues in her own post before Nogrod had said anything (excluding his pretty Alice quote - could that be taken as a hint itself? I have no idea). So, she was at least prone to think there was something hidden, Nogrod happened to answer her back, the character is called "Han Solo" itself, pretty convenient for an hint... but there's more to that. You'll notice Fea was herself making more and more questions, just like if she wanted to get more "evidence" against me. So, what is this about? I claim she plotted the whole thing from the beginning, to incriminate me. But why me? I should be just a silly newbie. The thing is, I was a last resort solution. Because she wanted to incriminate Lommy. But she isn't playing. So, she thought, why waste such a brilliant plan to break havoc in the game? And it happened.
Of course, all that tells us is that Fea is an evil mastermind. It says nothing about her alignment in this game - and I'm tempted to believe she's most probably innocent. But that leads us to another funny subject, "Save Fea!"

Most of you shall know this business better, but here's the pattern I noticed:

1. Fea acts suspiciously and puts herself in line for execution.
2. Fea's fan club panics and focus on a random lynch to save Fea from being executed.
3. The random lynchee turns out innocent. Now Fea may, or may not, be in even more danger.

So, it's not really efficient.


Making lists is a hard work. I discovered that while trying to make one, during the Night. Well, you can have this:

Likely innocent:
Lari, Fea, Rikae, Isa, Brinn (although she doesn't count because it seems she will always look innocent).

Likely evil:
Sally, Nog, Mira, Eonwe

I have no idea:
Durelin, Kath, TP, Nemo

----

that's all for now, going off for dinner.

(crossed since Nog's post 586330, probably there's a whole new page already)

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Lari[/B], what do you mean, you shouldn't defend your vote?

The last time I went and defended my vote it backfired horribly. And I also had to explain it so many times so I thought I would do it once and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Hansy

The Fea/Nogrod case; she was seeing clues in her own post before Nogrod had said anything (excluding his pretty Alice quote - could that be taken as a hint itself? I have no idea). So, she was at least prone to think there was something hidden, Nogrod happened to answer her back, the character is called "Han Solo" itself, pretty convenient for an hint... but there's more to that. You'll notice Fea was herself making more and more questions, just like if she wanted to get more "evidence" against me. So, what is this about? I claim she plotted the whole thing from the beginning, to incriminate me. But why me? I should be just a silly newbie. The thing is, I was a last resort solution. Because she wanted to incriminate Lommy. But she isn't playing. So, she thought, why waste such a brilliant plan to break havoc in the game? And it happened.
Of course, all that tells us is that Fea is an evil mastermind. It says nothing about her alignment in this game - and I'm tempted to believe she's most probably innocent. But that leads us to another funny subject, "Save Fea!"

I see where you're referring to but then looking at it again Fea also then says, paraphrased, "wow, that was really silly of me". So yes, for a post, in fact post 145 Fea was like "zomg Hansy...no wait I was on crack."

I'm not saying Fea couldn't have done this, but it just seems...highly unlikely. I can't really see her doing this. And your argument doesn't feel right to me. It seems really skiddish.

I think I might take a closer look at Hansy, or do so in a list that I will be writing.

Edit: x-posted with Nog.

[Nogrod]

Have you seen Steve's (Eönwë's) post in the admin thread?

I suggest we leave him be at least toDay - and if he happens to be a baddie we scorn him for the rest of his life for free-riding in an immoral fashion...

*I just realised that I had left a few pieces unpolished... back soon*


Okay, then for something completely different.

I'm still uneasy with Fea. Then again I'm also thinking she's most probably the Black Pawn and thence I'm not too sure we should waste a lynch on her if we have any decent option of lynching an actual killer-baddie.

Let me make my point in short one more time as it seems many people just don't get it.

So she makes that little and totally unconnected remark in her voting post saying I have "a way of saying interesting things on Day One" which follows after her telling she's in no mood to be nice to newbies (as a reason for her vote for Hansy).

Then after being questioned why she said that, she admits that she made the remark because she thought I was the seer.

Now why would an innocent go on making such a statement if she had a feeling someone was the seer? She has never answered this - and I can't see why any decent innocent would act like that in the first place. Especially if she thought that I had the most valuable information of all eg. knowing the identity of the BQ which was part of her explanation?!!!

But what kind of bothers me the most right now is her post toDay about it.

Originally Posted by Fea

In the event that I was right about him being Seer, and anybody noticed my comment but him, I intended to lie through omission about thinking he was the Seer, and would have amplified my faith in his ordinary intelligence and the organized mode of his rather linear thinking, which is often at cross purposes with my typically incoherent mind.

The question now becomes...
a) did she really have that thought out well before making the statement or is this invented afterwards (as her previous answer seemed to be in the crucial respects)?
b) and even more importantly: why did she make that original point about her thinking me to be the seer if she had to have millions of cover-plans for it if someone who shouldn't notice it would notice it? What was the rationale for it?


No innocent would say that aloud even if she thought that.

A cobbler might wish to point out a possible seer to the baddies. The motivation and the way she carries this through points neatly toward cobblerism.

A Black Queen wishing to point to the baddies who to kill / whom she will try to kill the coming Night then? In that case either the trio didn't get the hint or... and here we come to this possibility of the WQ being on action toNight... so maybe Fea really tried to kill me but the ranger covered me - and thus Eomer was killed by the WQ (it was a Q who took Eomer last Night but the table didn't tell us whether it was Black or White Queen who did it...)? In that case I'll be dead meat toMorrow. Baddies seldom leave an opportunity to kill someone without a danger of being distracted by the ranger unused if they have been frustrated once by her/him.

The likelihood of these scenarios is quite clear to me.

So Fea is up to no good but I can't see a believable scenario for her to be a member of the trio. The possibility of her being the BQ doesn't look too good either but is clearly better than the previous one. But her actions fit very nicely to her being the cobbler.

So she's a cobbler then. QED

Which means I should find someone else to vote for toDay as we can't afford yet another mislynch.

EDIT: Because of the extra polishing-job I seem to have X'd with a host of posts...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now why would an innocent go on making such a statement if she had a feeling someone was the seer? She has never answered this - and I can't see why any decent innocent would act like that in the first place. Especially if she thought that I had the most valuable information of all eg. knowing the identity of the BQ which was part of her explanation?!!!

There is no point in hiding a role that I don't think you have. I also don't think you're the White Queen. Oh no! My bad, I shouldn't have said that aloud. Saying what I don't think is just downright dangerous for everybody involved.

Originally Posted by Nog

a) did she really have that thought out well before making the statement or is this invented afterwards (as her previous answer seemed to be in the crucial respects)?

The problem with this is the suggestion that I think things out well in advance before saying them. I certainly considered the implications of posting a hint/query before I hit submit, and decided that it wasn't going to be a big deal if anybody noticed, because people drop hints and ask questions all the time; what I didn't expect was for you to respond the way you have. It makes me think you actually do have something to hide. Oh no, I shouldn't have said that either!

I intended to feel out the validity of my suspicion of your role, and to give an explanation for my vote of a newbie, when it's common practice to give noobs the benefit of the doubt on day one. I was in a foul mood and I noticed what you'd said. Why forgo a chance to kill off the Black Queen, and why wouldn't a player try to learn who the seer is? As I said, once you reacted the way you did, I knew no prudent seer would be that much of a blowhard (no offense, please, you know I adore you) in response to something so mundane.

I tire of this. You're being like a dog with a bone, Nog. Let it go.

Originally Posted by Nog

I mean the reason why Fea the cobbler was not lynched yesterDay was friendship and not the arguments in the game. And we could be rid of a cobbler now...

First I'd like to say, "Except I'm not the cobbler."

Then I'd like to say, "I agree with the rest."

While I'm pleased I'm not dead, games are no fun if they are based on favoritism instead of on suspicion. The phantom is right when he says I would never hesitate to kill him if I thought it would suit my plans, and it's common knowledge that he's a buddy of mine. Please don't let your adoration of my wonderful self mess with the integrity of the beauty that is stabbing your closest internet pals in the back.

Now that I've finally caught up...

Seriously, that just took me hours.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Fea, the list you listed as being listed by Fea is by Nog.

Right. How come half of the quotes are from me...

Now c'mon and play a bit more openly people! Everyone just lurking at the corners and avoiding attention will give us only lotteries in the end of the Day instead of a decent possibility to find out the baddies by looking at what people really think - or want us think they think.

Like Rikae said: discussion, please!

[Nogrod]

I'm not sure if we should dwell too much on this but I got an idea while having a cigarette I think should be voiced as well so that everyone's aware of the possibility.

So two people died last Night. The one killed by the BQ and the other by the wolf team. Or is it so? Maybe this time, but maybe not every Night?

Looking at the disadvantage of the village from the beginning I have somehow thought all the time that the role of the WQ will involve an ability to do personal kills at Night as well. It would be a double-edged sword and some would use it very sparingly - but then others... I happen to remember my own game a long time back where Anguirel had this special Night-killing ability and he killed someone every Night of the game and finally championed the good ones to victory killing more baddies singlehanded than the village did with their lynches...

So looking at motives behind the kills last Night and further down the road should probably include an "baddie-motive-error-factor" - like later in the game if someone tries to fit the kills together and doesn't seem to get the pieces in order it might be that our WQ has something to do with them and not only the baddies...

Okay, now back to the data...