Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Kath]

And Day 2 - it's getting late for me though so I may have to be a bit less thorough here.

Mnemo - first post makes me feel better about her. Good point about Eomer and about sally. I believe it is the former when it comes to phantom and Nog, two egotistical innocents battering each other.

sally - I certainly don't think it's odd that phantom voted to save Fea, he thought she was innocent, don't know about Brinn. Now do know about Brinn, think this is still odd.

Fea - fair explanation.

Mirandir - says she would have voted Gwath to save Fea, useful to know, would be nice to know why she wanted to save Fea.

Brinn - ah Brinn being pessimistic, now that makes me feel good about her! Fair points on the kills and her follow-through on sally is interesting. Odd comment at the end though, saying that actually Fea and Eonwe dropped off her suspicion list yesterDay though they aren't off the hook. If they're not baddies then how can they be on the hook?

Rikae - interesting that she figured Nerwen out, no one else seems to have had any idea. She's a bold enough wolf to come out and say it. That said I agree with her about Fea. Hmm I can see her points about Izzy. Actually I really can, from what I recall about Izzy in past games she has been really good at coming up with original ideas and posting well and this game she hasn't done much of that.

Lari - suspicion of Hansy for what he said about Fea.

wilwa - good point about Mirandir though she did explain it. To be honest this list post is like Nog's yesterday, no real opinions just 'could be this, not sure, will keep an eye open'. Except Mnemo, whom she seems pretty certain of. Votes Mnemo - well it's consistent.

Nog - interesting thoughts about how to find the werebear, though of course that says nothing about role as both sides want rid of them. Not sure the White Queen would have an extra kill, if she got it wrong and we had three kills a Night ... that's a lot of deaths. Hmm, with the letters. I think K stands for King, Shasta is the mod and therefore the king, then d is going to stand for pawn, why it's not a p I don't know, and that then Q is queen and B is, well bishop I gues but wolves in general. The numbers though I think are random. Fea did answer the question you know. Still, he's decided she's the Cobbler and will thus leave her be and so I see no point in spending time debating that with him. I disagree with him about phantom. phantom believes Fea is innocent. If Fea turns out not to be innocent then and only then will phantom follow Nog. Seems clear. Aww Nog you still hate me because I always seem to have RL reasons Day 1? You know I always make up for it. Fair point about sally. Votes Izzy which is interesting as, while I agree with the reasoning, I don't think he'd mentioned her a lot before.

Hansy - says he would have voted for sally. Thinks Nog is evil. I disagree, I think Nog got the different end of a stick. The whole thing between him and Gwath smacked of two innocent fighting it out to me.

Durelin - interesting point about Brinn, will look at that. Have looked, no she said Gwath and Fea were both on her suspicion list so either way she voted it would have been consistent.

So from that:

Possibly guilty:
sally - don't like her reasoning yesterDay or toDay.
Izzy - for what I said above.
Rikae - because I think she could be an incredibly bold wolf.
Hansy - still not keen.

Possibly not:
Fea - yeah I'm still not convinced about the Black Pawn thing.
phantom - again too uninvolved to be anything.
wilwa - that consistency has just made me happier about her.
Nog - he's a misguided innocent, he has to be. Any argument like the one between him and phantom has to be innocent on innocent.
Mnemo - I'm much happier about her toDay.

No idea:
Mirandir - want to see more from her, a lot more.
Durelin - would like more of an explanation about Brinn.
Brinn - want an answer to that question before she goes in a list.
Lari - I'm just not getting anything here.
Eonwe - as I said, leaving him alone.

Ha, I'm impressed Mnemo thinks I'm coherent though. It's 1 in the morning and I'm falling asleep. Therefore I shall vote and go.

It's between sally, Izzy, Rikae or Hansy - just as it would have been yesterDay. I think the only way my vote would be useful is if I went for Izzy or Hansy and as I have a dislike of bumping newbies off early:

++IZZY

[Rikae]

In reply to Kath's first post: I put my reasons in the vote post. Not much, true, but the best I had to go on at the time.

Now, a spanking (a spanking!)... er, a list:

Mirandir – Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of Mirandir? Really, there is very little there, and what little there is is a tad dark looking.
Durelin - She seems more or less innocentish; straightforward, confident, but not edgy.
Fea– Maybe she is, and maybe she isn't. The white wizard will know.
I'm leaning toward innocent, though. I really don't think Nog's case holds up to scrutiny (it makes him look worse, not her).
Isabellkya – I don't like what I see.
the phantom – He looks very sensible. I suppose he's good enough to do so while evil, but I haven't seen anything to cause me to suspect him.
Brinniel – Seems sensible and a bit grumpy. Like last game... she was evil last game. I'll keep an eye on her (two, when I can spare them).
satansaloser2005 – I disliked her vote from yesterday and I haven't seen anything to put her in a better light.
Lariren Shadow – She has done some slight things to make me wary. I would like to have a closer look at her, but I don't have the time now.
wilwarin538 – I like what I see.
Eonwe – Cautious, under-the-reindeerish, likely to be ignored, which may be dangerous.
Nogrod – Went single-mindedly after Fea for weak reasons - but I didn't find that unusual. However, the way he now goes after tp for even weaker reasons is much, even for him. He does share my thoughts on Izzy, which looks a bit better, but then I have to remember that he has been a backstabbing wolf before, and that one could also be a werebear. I'm unsure, but more and more would like to know his role.
Mnemosyne – Difficult to read, since I'm not familiar with her, but I don't get any evil vibes. She's active and takes the initiative, which I like to see.
Kath – I'm glad she's back, and what I've seen is reassuring about her.
Hansy – I don't like all the talk about cheating, but that's not the same as suspecting him. No read at all.


Suspect most:
Izzy, Sally


Suspect moderately:
Nogrod, Steve, Lari

Suspect a bit:
Brinn, Mira

Neutral/Somewhat innocent:
Hansy, Kath, Mnemi, tp, Fea

Most innocent:
Wilwa, Durelin

And voting:

++Isabellkya

EDIT: X'd with Hansy

[the phantom]

Wilwa ++Mnem
Nog ++Izzy
Kath ++Izzy (2)
Hansy ++Nog
Rikae ++Izzy (3)

Well, well... off to an early lead.

What do you have to say about this, Izzy? You have just under four hours to move to a safer square on the board.

EDIT: x-post Fea

[Isabellkya]

ToDay...

It might just be me, but Mnemosyne; you looked awfully cold-hearted and blood thirsty with your "Who're we killing today?" bit in the first post after Night two ended.

#249, Rikae you do a vote recap with the relevant posts.
I think you made a bit of a mistake there, as I don't recall "tying" Steve/Eonwe? and Sally to Gwath at all yesterDay - let alone in post #196. Maybe you confused me with phantom who did?

#259, Wilwa posts her thoughts on everyone, and will most likely vote for Mira or Mnemosyne with the possibility of Sally.
At first read, I thought Mira had written this post, so when she said she might vote for herself - I was like... o.O Did someone just out themselves?

#261. Rikae analyzes me. I had been referring to Hansy's ideas of the BQ trying to work with the village as a "hired gun", so as to live longer and to try for second place. It happens sometimes where Hansy, Shasta and I have played together, outside of the BD.

#265 - Lariren replies to Rikae. Says she might look at Hansy.
She can't see Fea doing such a thing.
----- I could see Fea doing such a thing like Hansy discussed. It doesn't seem to be so far fetched to me. Mainly because I recall Fea claiming seer for the fun/heck of it before. So if she is bold enough to do that, then what says she wouldn't do something just as crafty now? Though in this instance, I don't think it is as bluffing - her response and reasoning to what happened with the whole Han/Solo thing, seemed genuine. Does it make her clear of being a baddie or up to no good, because she is bold enough to do such things? No way.

This response Lari bugs me just a bit, because it seems that you are almost blinded to the ways of Fea. It would be like your gran holding onto an image of you as a child - thinking you could never do wrong.


I dare say I have probably crossposted with a bunch of people, having inadvertently taken a nap after picking my niece up from school.

Sheesh. X'd since Sally's #275

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

It might just be me, but Mnemosyne; you looked awfully cold-hearted and blood thirsty with your "Who're we killing today?" bit in the first post after Night two ended.

Oh, absolutely.

And suddenly everyone (for certain definitions of everyone) is voting Izzy.

I just reread her posts and she sounded thoroughly bland. I think the one with the best case against her is Nog and his "why did you vote and then just chill?"

Although I must admit that endDay can get so hairy it's sometimes better for your own sanity to do all you can, and then just sit and wait.

I'd love to hear some self-defense, Isabellkya.

[Isabellkya]

Continuing on....

#275 - Sally finds the 'glomping' of Gwath yesterDay by Phantom and Brin worrying.
----- What worries me about this post, is Sally's claiming of innocence - twice. It seems a bit overdone. She claims to be not evil, and innocent - she even says "not that you'll believe me, but hey". Well, to what purpose are you claiming innocence twice in one post; when you haven't really posted much at all?

#279 - Nog might vote Phantom for his response to Durelin. Likes how he plays, but thinks he actually has reasons to suspect him.

#280 - Nog is ready to vote for Kath, but if there is a bigger post coming, he won't.
Sally and Brin bother him - Sally for her vote and Brin for her carefulness and agreeability.
Dury is too straightforward to be a baddie.
Rikae, his gut yells she is a baddie. He will have to reconsider voting for phantom.

#281 - phantom claims to be an obsessive self-defender

#282 Nog doesn't like Mira's vote tally seven minutes prior to DL, then not voting.
He doesn't like my seeming unconcern after I voted roughly twenty minutes prior to DL, then "hung around".
----- Did I feel easy at the time I was voting and through to the DL?
Absolutely not. I didn't think Gwath was even going to be lynched. When I saw phantom and Brin bring out the save votes at the end, I said a word that isn't appropriate to post on the thread. I stick by my vote, sorry Gwath. I would rather place my vote on someone who I am unsure and have doubts about, as opposed to rolling a die between others who I had not looked into.

#284 - Mnemosyne is pleased with Nog's voting of Izz.
Is bothered by Brin's vote from yesterDay.

#285 - Kath makes a list of possibly guilt, possibly not, and no idea from Day one.
----- What do you mean by Mnemosyne "a little leaping on the bandwagon-esque, not sure about this."?

#287 - Mnemosyne going to start with looking at Brin.
#288 - [b]Mnemosyne[/b[ would like to see more of Brin.
----- Is it Brin's vote from yesterDay that made you start looking with her? If it is, it seems that Brin went from "bothering you" to "less suspicious". DO you mind elaborating on it?

#290 - Kath makes a list of people for toDay.
---- Why does your reasoning for voting for me, look very similar to that of Nog's? It looks quite contradictory to me. You say that I have not been as "original" as past games, yet you do this. Mind elaborating?

It seems to me that the reasoning behind the votes - are not being original as usual, for understanding Hansy and my voting of Gwath.

In a general response. I don't think I am ever original in ideas; in werewolf you really can't be. Because the game has been around for years, and I've only been a part of it for a relatively short amount of time. If you think I have in previous games, I thank you - but reject the "praise"; as I don't believe anyone can truly be original nowadays. Because by this time, actually seeing something "new" is quite few and very far between. In regards to Hansy, I don't really know what else to say on the matter - other than what I've already said. With Gwath, I'll point upwards in the post, to my response to Nog.


I'm going to take a short break now, my hand is threatening to cease functioning.


X'd with Mnemosyne and Mirandir after my #298.

[the phantom]

Okay, I finished my Day 1 Nog read. He looks pretty clean. Just Mnem to do now.

And then to skim everything from today...

[Mnemosyne]

To Izzy: Brin's vote yesterDay worried me because I had thought she jumped in there with little to no reasoning, especially on a "save Fea" count. I had clean forgotten about her post which said that the situation was reminding her of the previous game, which is some reasoning. On rereading her posts, I was not only reminded of that post, but also of some other ones beforehand in which she had suspected Gwath in his own right.

That's why my suspicion of her has slackened.

[the phantom]

Okay, finished Mnem's Day 1 stuff. I'd say she probably isn't a creature of the night.

Now I'm reading Day 2 stuff. I'll read it straight through instead of going person by person. Stay tuned...

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I....erm....kind of fell asleep. Sorry about that. Back now though, I'm sure you'll be happy to hear, so to business!

Well, to business after the brief announcement of 'Yay, Nog went to bed!'


So a few people are voting for Izzy. The problem is that I've gone through her posts and didn't see a whole lot that was troublesome. I'll have another look, because I know I miss stuff a lot, but for now I don't see what the big deal is with her.

By the way, I should have mentioned the obvious, it seems. Both of the last minute votes for Gwath troubled me because of....well because they were last minute votes, but of the two of them Brinn's obviously bothers me more because it came with less warning and could easily have been a last minute attempt to save an evil Fea. I assumed that went without saying so I didn't mention it, but I keep forgetting that just because something is obvious in my brain doesn't mean that people will know it's in my brain at all.

I'll have to look around a bit more before I vote. Hansy still is unsettling to me, just to put that out there, and there are a few others that I have feelings about, but nothing terribly concrete at the moment.

Oh, and somebody (sorry, I'm too lazy to go back and look who it was, if both things were even mentioned by the same person) mentioned that A: I pointed out my innonence too much and B: I suspected Nerwen more than Fea but voted for the later anyway. Well, to respond to that.... When I'm innocent I'm more than happy to point it out to the rest of the class, and while I know no one will automatically believe me I figure I may as well tell everyone whose side I'm on so they know....well, so they know that if I say weird stuff, it's because I'm thick, not because I'm evil. And I did say that I suspected Nerwen more, but I also realize that Nerwen and I for some reason seem to always suspect each other regardless of role so I took that into account when voting and decided that my 'vibe' against Fea was actually more trustworthy than what I had seen in Nerwen's post.

Off to read things again.

[Brinniel]

I'm here. Sorry I haven't posted...I had time to read throughout the Day, but I didn't get the chance to actually write something. But I'll be here until deadline.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Brinniel, as far as I can tell, did a 180 from voting Fea and to voting Gwath at the last minute.

I don't know how you could possibly see me pulling a 180. I never said I was going to lynch Fea; I said I'd probably vote her if I couldn't find a better candidate. I stated three people I considered voting for, Gwath included. And in the couple posts following, I started to back off on Fea.

Originally Posted by Kath

If they're not baddies then how can they be on the hook?

Those two may no longer be on the top of my suspicion list right now, but as I said, I want to re-examine everyone. Fea and Eonwe may look more innocentish than before, but I'm not gonna make the mistake of completely disregarding them since I can't know anything for sure.

As of now, Noggie is the one who's bothering me the most, and for many reasons:

1. His weird theory about the White Queen being the one to kill Eomer instead of the Black Queen. I suppose it's possible the WQ could be some sort of assassin, but I highly doubt it. For one thing, there's enough roles that have the ability to kill at Night as it is (there were six, now five), I don't think Shasta would add another...it'd be just too much bloodshed. These wild theories Nogrod comes up with are both weird and misguiding.

2. His apparent certainty that Fea is the cobbler. Really? You're that sure after only one Day? C'mon, we all know Fea is an odd one, and I do always find it difficult to figure her out. Noggie said he couldn't see how her behaviour could possibly be that of an innocent, yet he knows that's not necessarily true because he said the same thing last game and she was an innocent. Even if Fea is cobblerish, it doesn't mean she is.

3. He keeps indicating that he's likely to get Night-killed any time now. I don't know why he thinks he'd make such a great target...just because he did last time. I know it's typical for an innocent to occasionally comment their worries that they might be killed soon, but the fact that he keeps repeating it is what I find troublesome.

4. Noggie's always one to analyse and overthink, but it almost seems he is doing it to an excess. Of course this is only based off of feeling, which doesn't make it a very strong reasoning, but I had to mention it. It's primarily the other three reasons that cause me to suspect him.

I'd like to examine everyone else carefully, but I don't know if I have enough time for that. But I'll try.