Fantasy

[Pitchwife]

An afterthought:

Originally Posted by davem

there is no desire on Tolkien's part to have these rebels 'saved'

But did they ever actually rebel, or did they just talk and fantasize about it (the way a smoker may talk about quitting, because it would be reasonable/healthy/whatever, but without the will to actually try) ? The way I understand Tolkien's views, you have to make an effort if you want to be saved; dreaming is not enough. Again, it's the difference between paying lip-service to values and acting accordingly, see above.