WWLVIII: Escape From Angband (or Behavioral Modification)

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Good catch on Gwath, Wilwa. He may be worth suspicion...

I'm still trying to figure out how that was a "catch," and what it's supposed to prove. As far as I can tell, you're just trying to amplify an otherwise small point against me it into a big case, without really committing yourself. It's all in the phrasing: "catch" is a loaded term that implies a "slip" on my part, which means I must be evil.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I'm still trying to figure out how that was a "catch," and what it's supposed to prove. As far as I can tell, you're just trying to amplify an otherwise small point against me it into a big case, without really committing yourself.

That you voted Legate even though you suspected others more. I don't buy the "oops wrong category" explanation. You acted purposefully to get a dangerous innocent out of your way and to cast an easy vote and now you're coming up with excuses that cannot be proven right or wrong, quite clever. Therefore:

++Gwathagor

I still don't get why people suspect me, but I won't stay here to argue. I'm off to bed. Choose wisely, friends!


edit: xed with Wilwa

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

That you voted Legate even though you suspected others more. I don't buy the "oops wrong category" explanation. You acted purposefully to get a dangerous innocent out of your way and to cast an easy vote and now you're coming up with excuses that cannot be proven right or wrong, quite clever.

Do you disagree that he was more suspicious than the others?

[Nogrod]

I am amidst of writing a longer post and let Lommy to take the computer for a moment making her vote and go to sleep. And what she said about Gwath actually makes me think again.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

That you voted Legate even though you suspected others more. I don't buy the "oops wrong category" explanation. You acted purposefully to get a dangerous innocent out of your way and to cast an easy vote and now you're coming up with excuses that cannot be proven right or wrong, quite clever.

I have not yet looked back to see whether Lommy twisted that situation (I will look back there the next), but if true, that is a fair point. Or what do you say Gwath?

EDIT: x'd with Gwath X2

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I am amidst of writing a longer post and let Lommy to take the computer for a moment making her vote and go to sleep. And what she said about Gwath actually makes me think again.
I have not yet looked back to see whether Lommy twisted that situation (I will look back there the next), but if true, that is a fair point. Or what do you say Gwath?

I primarily object to Lommy's representation of my motives. She makes it seem as though putting Legate in my less suspicious category and then voting for him anyway was all part of a scheme on my part to get rid of an innocent whom I knew to be a particular threat. What could I, as a duck, have hoped to have gained from drawing attention to myself by voting for someone I had put in my less suspicious category? If it was a plot, then it was a poorly conceived one.

[Gwathagor]

More than anything, it just seems like she is trying to take something small, blow it out of proportion, and get me lynched.

EDIT: Shoot, crossed with Master Nogrod

[Macalaure]

I'm feeling better about Nogrod and I don't think a vote for Durelin will gather much support. Gwath and Lari seem to be in a bit of a danger of lynching, but I think both are innocent. I also feel better about Fea, Mith, and Nienna, leaving Brinn, Kath, Lommy, and Nilp as possibilities. I'm far too doubtful about all of these except Lommy, who I'm a bit more suspicious of now, and since she already has a vote, I will accept Mith's invitation and go

++Thinlómien

Because I agree with what Mith and Gwath said about her.

[Rikae]

I think I'll vote and sign off for the night. I have a date with a typewriter eating tinfoil being kicked down the stairs.

Mith is very nice and thoughtful , but just too confident. Too much confidence = evil. At least, that's the theory I'm going to go with.

++Mith

[Nogrod]

Read yourselves... (So these are the Legate-voters after Gwath initiated it)

Originally Posted by Nienna

His vote as an experiment bothered me... experiments are controlled environments where only one variable has been changed... this is nowhere near being a controlled environment. Sorry i just went all psych major... Now as long as no one confuses correlation and causation we should be fine.

Originally Posted by Wilva

So, for the most part I'm not overly suspicious of any of them, most of them actually I don't really have a read on at all, but I need to vote so here it goes, hopefully it all works out: I'm being honest when I say that this vote is not as founded on any suspicion as I would like.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Of the three that are tied, I find him most suspicious. I'd rather see him go than Lari or Durelin.

Originally Posted by Dury

Legate for the vengeful part of me.

I don't like any of them to be sure. Too easy, too "avoiding" all of them... and looking like there is a relief that one could take the route others had taken: just read them one after another and see the developement...

Gah. This is getting hard indeed.

[Gwathagor]

The best of them won't come for money. They'll come for me.

[wilwarin538]

Well, I'm afraid I can't stay up as late as I thought I'd be able to, so I will be voting now and then going off to bed:

++Gwathagor

Good luck everyone, and hopefully I get lucky again toNight and am still here next Day!

x'posted since Gwath's last

[Lariren Shadow]

Fea: I have absolutely no idea about her. I’m leaning towards a more innocent vibe, but then again I think I’m always bad at reading her.

Brinn: I’m thinking slightly more innocent, but I’m not entirely sure either.

Wilwa: Everytime I read her posts they just, rub me the wrong way. I can’t really point out about it, but I just get a bad vibe.

Dury: I know she really wants me to answer questions and wonders why I keep disappearing and the answer is that I come back, read through, and then can post one line and then I have to go do something else. As for what I think of Dury I think she is sounding pretty innocent. YesterDay I thought her whole “we have to really start talking” just sounded guilty so that was the vote.

Nog: He is seemingly slightly more innocent to me. I really can’t say what it is, but earlier I suspected him and then I looked through his posts again and he seems more innocent again.

Izzy: I have absolutely no read on her.

Nerwen: I really wish I could say more about her too. I have nothing right now.

Rikae: Seems slightly guilty to me. She is just, rubbing me wrong in her posts is all.

Mith: I don’t like her posts either. They just seem not right. I’m more inclinded to think she is more guilty than not.

Kath: I have no idea.

Mac: Am sorry I call you Bubbles. However, I do think you are also slightly guilty in your posts. That whole rant, while I agree, looking back over it, could be a Duck/Wolf in hiding.

Nienna: Says a lot of Shakespeare stuff. Which makes methink she has something important about her, but I’m not sure if that is evil or not.

Gwath: He’s feeling innocent to me. His post don’t seem to scream anything horrible to me. I really can’t say more.

Lommy: Is looking slightly guilty.

Nilp: No clue what so ever.

So to sum things up:

Guilty/Feelings of Guilt:
Lommy
Bubbles
Mith
Rikae
Wilwa

Innocent/Feelings of Innocent:
Gwath
Nog
Dury
Brinn

No Clue:
Nilp
Nienna
Kath
Nerwen
Izzy
Fea

Originally Posted by Izzy

Lari.
A couple of questions and comments.


Why did you think that?

Just do. I think there is a Seer because that seems like an unfair advantage to the village. I also am more inclined to think that, at least in this, since Sally said everyone was going to have a role or be a tricked out ordo, I was thinking with the sheer number that there are all three: Seer, Ranger, and Hunter.

Who are/is the "we"?

The village. Everyone is we. I'm not using the royal we here.

That is all I really have to say right now. I shall check this after posting and think about my vote. As for right now I shall continue watching Mulan.

[Isabellkya]

++Lari

Because I actually find her in the realms of WereDuckie behavior.
Rather than..... baaaahndwagons.

[Brinniel]

I'm feeling rather uncomfortable with wilwa right now. While she's perfectly aware of behavioural assignments, she doesn't take into account that someone's attitude, use of banter, and post counts could be an assignment too. Which is why I find her reasons for suspicion to be very weak.

Lommy doesn't sit right with me either. It's not really how she says things, but what she says...if that makes any sense. I wonder if we're dealing with an evil Lommy this time...

EDIT: X-ed since Gwath (#546)

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

You acted purposefully to get a dangerous innocent out of your way and to cast an easy vote and now you're coming up with excuses that cannot be proven right or wrong, quite clever.

How would I have known he was dangerous? Why have you latched on to my vote, when there were other votes that were more decisive than mine in getting him lynched? It looks an awful like you're trying "to get a dangerous innocent out of your way."

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Care to elaborate on how I'm "lost"?

Asking a lot of questions, seeming like you're a bit confused on some things. Maybe you're not; I just got that impression. Of course a lot of us are probably confused...

Originally Posted by Mith

Ummm sorry to go thought police-ish and I am sure no offence was intended but as a general rule I think it better to say
if she is lying rather than if she is a liar.

No, no, that's not what I meant at all. I was trying to say it in a jesting manner after Rikae made some sort of comment about how Nogrod knows she lies. I should've added a smiley, I suppose. Sorry.

[Nogrod]

Okay Gwath. If you were a duck, you would be more than happy if Legate - who was not your mate but an enemy - was not around. And yes there were other votes that were more decisive, but mostly the wolves (wereducks) shy away from making the decisive votes anyway.

Do I have to remind you about your own post? (That is all from the same post.)

Originally Posted by Gwath

Suspicious
Rikae
Nogrod
Sally!
Sort of Suspicious
Legate
Durelin
...
Legate's vote for Durelin looks pretty bad to me, but I don't think that a clever wolf would do anything quite that obvious.
...
++Legate

So you had me and Rikae as your most suspicious candidates - and you made a reservation that a clever wereduck would not be "that obvious" as Legate was when voting Dury "for experiment" as it was... But you still managed to vote him out of me, Rikae or Dury.

I must say I don't like this picture I get from here.

And on a second note: I do not like the way people got carried away with this Legate-vote in the first place. Yes, he acted strangely, but would a wereduck act that strangely? Still so many of you were more than happy to grasp that possibility of making an "easy vote". If some of you are innocents you should be shamed of yourselves...

I need to look at that tally as well once again.

PS. I saw your answer Gwath and will consider it as well as I go back to the voting of yesterDay...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay Gwath. If you were a duck, you would be more than happy if Legate - who was not your mate but an enemy - was not around.

That is true. However, if I was looking for an easy lynch, I surely wouldn't have risked starting an unnecessary bandwagon. I believe that there were several other people who had already received votes at that time, and I could have easily gone with one of them.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...does anyone know what the vote count is as of now?

[Gwathagor]

Thinlomien: 2
Gwath: 2
Mith: 1

I think that is it, at any rate.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

That is true. However, if I was looking for an easy lynch, I surely wouldn't have risked starting an unnecessary bandwagon. I believe that there were several other people who had already received votes at that time, and I could have easily gone with one of them.

Do I have to get more worried about you now? Did you think back then that you were starting a bandwagon, or risking to start one you now afterwards call "unnecessary" or is this just trying to explain things afterwards?

Going with some of those who had already received votes might have been much more risky as then you might have been the one dealing the killing blow of an innocent or at least being an integral part of the lynch, right (if you're a duck that is and thence as you knew it)? Legate was an easy target because of the queer post he made talking about experimenting with his vote. A gift for a baddie...

But looking at the other Legate-voters and their reasons for it... well they don't look any more innocent - and it would be a spectacular situation if all of you five were baddies...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Do I have to get more worried about you now? Did you think back then that you were starting a bandwagon, or risking to start one you now afterwards call "unnecessary" or is this just trying to explain things afterwards?

I was speaking hypothetically. If I was a duck, voting for Legate would have been risking an unnecessary bandwagon. So, no, you shouldn't be more worried about me now. I just want my common ration of humanity, and I was only talking that way because of the context of our discussion.

[Nienna]

I still don't really know who to vote for... I'm leaning toward either Gwath or Mith ...

Gwath is posting a lot but he it doesn't seem like he is contributing much and what he is saying seems to be trying to hint in his posts as they don't make a lot of sense but I won't hold random posts against him as it may be a posting requirement but i still think he is secretly communicating and that makes me slightly nervous.

Mith is like gunning against Lommy and I and yet she gives like no reasoning which makes me nervous. She also said that I'm irritating... I don't think I'm being irritating but if I am... I'm sorry...

X-ed with Gwath and Nerwen

[Nogrod]

Just sending you what I had made of my "lengthier post" before things started to happen (editing out those parts that have now changed because of the latest discussions and which I have already commented on).

I haven’t gotten myself rid of my bad vibes with Dury but I’m the first to admit she does more than a host of other players around – and as the situation will start to clear a bit she could be caught if she’s a baddie. So on the point of a principle and a long term good I’m very much unwilling to check her loyalties by lynching her toDay, mainly due to her efforts today. She plays unlike many others do.

Also her points on Lommy (as well as those made by Mith) look sensible. It’s probably the first time I’m really uneasy with Lommy due to her posting. There is something overtly careful in her posts and in her avoidance of debate – unless it is defending her case which she does a bit over the top this time.

Mith’s point about that vote being one of her “most confident votes ever” looks interesting but innocent enough to me at this time. I mean she rarely lies even if she is a baddie... and that is a comment she would just not make if she would have to vote against her conscience.

The grumpy Mac looks to me more innocent than guilty. I think I do see where he is coming from and it makes me feel better about him.

Kath has just shown her qualities and I will not be voting her toDay. I trusted she could pull it off and well she did it eventually.

I’m inclined to trust Fea too – as well as Brinn. But I’m not sure why Fea lists Lari as a trusted one as well as there I do disagree. Just out-of-the-game friendship or something other?

With Nienna I would agree on Izzy feeling foul even if she looks good – and disagree with her on Rikae and say she looks foul but feels good.

[Nerwen]

YAY!!!!1111!!!!

Another great dilemma!

Gwath...?
Lommy...?
Gwath...?
Lommy...?

Let's see:

Gwath did that strange thing (pointed out by wilwarin) of voting someone he didn't list in the "most suspicious" category. Then, toDay, his manner has been off...quite a lot like a Gwathwolf... but then Lommy is going after him heavily, and she doesn't feel right either.

(somebody else...?)

Mac is acting rather like he's trying to tell somebody something... bit like Mac Ferny a couple of games back...
Mith is too confident...
and Rikae is too confident in voting her...
Durelin has mostly seemed okay, but there is that Day One apparent slip– I don't think she's explained that properly...
And Nogrod has been kind of jumpy and weird, though not so much lately...

Decisions, decisions!

EDIT: x'd since Brinniel at #554. So much reading to catch up on! Cool!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Then, toDay, his manner has been off...quite a lot like a Gwathwolf... but then Lommy is going after him heavily, and she doesn't feel right either.

I've explained this already! My manner - it seems insubordinate, but it isn't really.