Immortality and the sons of Elrond

[Inziladun]

The end of (Elrond's) sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while.

Letters # 153

That's what the Professor had to say about it. It would seem that after the departure of Elrond Elladan and Elrohir didn't figure much in the later histories. That would have been in keeping with the accelerating decline of the Elves in influence and importance.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

But couldn't that quote be taken to mean, "I haven't
gotten around to writing it, or maybe I'll keep it
untold to add to that sense of depth I like",
especially since it ends with:

and remain for a while.

?

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

"The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" mentions that when Arwen visits Lorien after Aragorn's death it is deserted. The Elves have left. Presumably Elladan and Elrohir had also left Middle Earth by that time, because otherwise Arwen might have chosen to spend her last days with them.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

"The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" mentions that when Arwen visits Lorien after Aragorn's death it is deserted. The Elves have left. Presumably Elladan and Elrohir had also left Middle Earth by that time, because otherwise Arwen might have chosen to spend her last days with them.

What if they had died by that time? Could they have decided to have a life of a human too? Because doesn't it say in the Silmarillion that if you were of Elrond's lineage you could choose whether or not you wanted to be an elf or a human. I vaguely remember reading something about that about two weeks ago.

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

What if they had died by that time? Could they have decided to have a life of a human too? Because doesn't it say in the Silmarillion that if you were of Elrond's lineage you could choose whether or not you wanted to be an elf or a human. I vaguely remember reading something about that about two weeks ago.

"The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" indicates that Arwen hasn't aged much at the time of Aragorn's death:

"She was not yet weary of her days, and thus she tasted of the bitterness of the mortality that she had taken upon her."

It appears from the text that she dies of grief and not old age, so it's not clear that Elladan and Elrohir would have died at this stage, had they chosen to become mortal. It has only been 120 years since Elrond has left.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

But couldn't that quote be taken to mean, "I haven't
gotten around to writing it, or maybe I'll keep it
untold to add to that sense of depth I like"

Of course it could. But to me that means any speculation of the fate of the two is just that: speculation. If they chose the life of the Eldar their options were limited to remaining for a while in ME and then sailing into the West, if they could find or build a ship to bear them, or staying indefinitely, until they, in the words of Galadriel, "forget and (are) forgotten". If they chose mortality, they probably had at least a couple hundred years ahead of them, comparable to Arwen, but I would again question whether they were in a position to do anything really meaningful in the Fourth Age.

[Galin]

The implication from The Lord of the Rings is that they chose mortality -- noting that Robert Foster writes: '... and since they did not accompany Elrond over Sea they seem to have chosen to become mortal'

Entry Elladan, The Complete Guide to Middle-Earth.

[Mnemosyne]

Eh... Foster's guide is not terribly accurate, having (I think) come out pre-Letters. If I recall correctly it also claims that sailing West granted Frodo immortality which we now know is not the case (and even then, could have guessed that it wouldn't be the case because of the way the events of Numenor played out in the appendices to LotR). Since Celeborn (who apparently sailed at an undistinguished time) also did not sail when Elrond did and we have the additional cases of Sam (probably) and Legolas, there's nothing to say that the sons of Elrond couldn't have sailed sometime in the Fourth Age.

For what it's worth (which is very little) the arguments from a literary standpoint which I've seen fanauthors make when they try to work out which kindred they think Elladan and Elrohir chose usually have them side with the elves: the only two Halfelven who we know sided with mortals had some great good that their choice accomplished. Elros founded the ruling line of Numenor, and Arwen helped to restore the glory of the Dunedain in the Renewed Kingdoms. There appears to be no similar destiny awaiting the sons of Elrond should they choose mortality.

And of course, we can't forget that these are two individuals we're talking about. They don't necessarily have to choose the same way.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

If I'm recalling his intro to the book correctly, Foster out-and-out refuses to include any information that doesn't appear in TH, LotR, or TS. A good example is his comment that Gandalf "may have been a Maia," and that it is "tempting" to equate him with the Maia Olorin. Tolkien plainly says in Unfinished Tales and in many other writings that the Maia Olorin IS the wizard Gandalf, but it didn't show up in the "story books" (for lack of a better term), so Foster disregards it. For me, that doesn't make him the best source for definitive information about Tolkien's works.

Anyway, I think there is one other factor to be considered in the fates of Elladan and Elrohir: their mother. They chose to go to war in Gondor with the Dunedain not because they strongly identified with mortal Men, but because they "remembered the torments of their mother" at the hands of the Enemy when she and her party had been attacked while traveling from Lothlorien to Rivendell. That they would be so strongly driven by this event, which happened many years before, is, to me, significant. They may have stayed for time after Elrond departed, perhaps because of their sister, but also perhaps because they wanted to be sure the remaining Enemy forces were defeated and either eliminated or no longer a major threat. In the end, they may not have been around when Arwen died because they desired to see their mother, healed and alive again. It was because of her that they fought so strongly against the Enemy, and I find it hard to believe that they would not want to see her again. Just a thought.

[Galin]

To my mind Foster has made a valid enough statement with respect to the Sons of Elrond however -- as I think the implication from various description in The Lord of the Rings is that the Sons of Elrond chose mortality. And I cited this entry because RF is basically going by Tolkien-published text (and Silmarillion) but not Letters.

Letter 153 was written in 1954, and in 1955 Tolkien was still working on texts which would impact this issue -- that is, the Numenorean Kings (i) Numenor, and (V) Part of the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen.

To put it another way, I would find it odd if Tolkien himself did not think he was leaving such an impression. And again (if I read the textual history correctly that is), Foster's entry is not only based on Tolkien-published description, but based on text that was still being worked on after Tolkien (almost) told Peter Hastings that the end of the sons of Elrond is not told (and etc) (I say 'almost' told Hastings as IIRC Tolkien did not send this letter).