Game Thread: Werewolf- this time it's real!

[Isabellkya]

Well sure, Nog. From your perspective you could lump all of us Nienna voters in the fishy category. Then, you'd be fish-ifying yourself.

Brin's saving of Kuru looked genuine. Unless she doesn't normally do that?

Gwath's and Sally's votes for Nienna look the most bandwagonish. They seemingly come out of nowhere - as in; literally right after you posted about her.


X'd with Kuru.

[Isabellkya]

Originally Posted by Kent

That split vote for Nienna and Kuru was wierd too. Someone who earlier harped about we have to kill someone "for real" and we have to be careful, votes for 2 people on Day 1? Were you trying to propel Nienna to the lynch, or in the very least making your best attempt to save Kuru, without over-committing?

Perhaps the opposite maybe? Since according to the sheets tacked to the wall over there - whomever has the most votes last would get the axe. I wonder about your voting order there Nog.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Kent

Nifty excuse to not vote for someone.

No offense met Kuru, but I don't care if you only played every 100 years, if you are a baddie would vote you out as soon as possible, Day 1 or not, aren't in werewolf that much or not, shouldn't be a factor.

If you had seen me in other games, you'd know that I typically like to keep alive players who are newbies, infrequent players, or someone who tends to get Day 1 lynched often for the first Day or two. To me, it's a matter of fairness. It can be more frustrating as first time player, someone who hasn't played in a long time, or someone who always dies early compared to a regular to hardly play before getting killed, especially as a Day One lynch when reasoning behind suspicion isn't all that strong. WW is supposed to be fun and sometimes that situation takes out the fun and discourages the player from joining another game. I've seen it happen before.

Of course I'm not saying no one else should vote for that player; it's your own choice. But when I don't have any clear suspects, I will vote to save someone I'd like to see alive longer. At that point, it doesn't really matter if they're acting suspicious. Typically the most suspicious behaving player on Day One (who usually does get lynched) turns out to be an ordo. And of course I'm not going to give people free passes the entire game. I'm not sure about toDay, but certainly by toMorrow everyone is fair game in my book.

[Isabellkya]

That is what I was wondering Nog. Because technically you made your vote for Kuru after you voted for Nienna, essentially twice then retracted one of those votes. You wouldn't of been able to vote for Kuru if you hadn't of retracted one from Nienna.

Which brings up something else. You said you thought Nienna was a wolf, and Kuru a cobbler. So why even place a vote for Kuru, when lynching a wolf is of a higher priority?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Which brings up something else. You said you thought Nienna was a wolf, and Kuru a cobbler. So why even place a vote for Kuru, when lynching a wolf is of a higher priority?

I'm not sure I should even bother answering your odd questions any more... Well, one doesn't exactly know who is what on Day1, right? So voting for two people you suspect the most furthers the chances that one of them gets lynched in comparison to other candidates. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Originally Posted by Izzy

That is what I was wondering Nog. Because technically you made your vote for Kuru after you voted for Nienna, essentially twice then retracted one of those votes. You wouldn't of been able to vote for Kuru if you hadn't of retracted one from Nienna.

I have to ask you about this though. Would you explain me what are you after with this for it beats me entirely. I just don't get what you're saying - or the relevance of it.

Okay. Let me put it like this. The last one reaching the highest vote is lynched. Kuru's fifth vote was mine (33 min. before the DL) and Nienna's was the one given by Brinn (3 min. before the DL). Therefore Nienna got lynched because she got her last vote half an hour later than Kuru did.

Now how does this relate to the question of me choosing to vote Nienna first and Kuru the second - and what are you trying to imply would have been different or would have made my vote more/less suspicious in your eyes had I done it the other way around? I simply don't see it.

But I do understand that you prefer to discuss the voting of other people as yours look so bad... and the thing that worries me a bit as well is that your questions look so... how should one say it in English... factitious, artificial? Or maybe I'm just missing their point?


I'll come back to the voting and posting of Day1 a bit later.

Originally Posted by Nilp

But I hardly think you guilty, despite attacking half the village.

Haha... I don't think I have attacked half the village but I probably have suspected a third of it openly. And that's what we need to do in order to catch the baddies. And we all need to suspect more.

Old werewolf wisdom, part VII: Those who stab you at Night normally rub you nicely during the Day.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I said what I said knowing you'd say and think that.

I love this game.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

If you had seen me in other games, you'd know that I typically like to keep alive players who are newbies, infrequent players, or someone who tends to get Day 1 lynched often for the first Day or two. To me, it's a matter of fairness. It can be more frustrating as first time player, someone who hasn't played in a long time, or someone who always dies early compared to a regular to hardly play before getting killed, especially as a Day One lynch when reasoning behind suspicion isn't all that strong. WW is supposed to be fun and sometimes that situation takes out the fun and discourages the player from joining another game. I've seen it happen before.

I'm somewhat concerned that I find myself agreeing with Kent again... always a bad sign when someone seems to think the way you do in this game... but I'm also not buying this completely. Sorry, Brinn.

My difficulty here is that you voted for Nienna... who was admittedly not the most newbie nor the most silent person present yesterDay, but she had a good smattering of both. Now, I suppose it's possible that you saw/see Nienna as a toughened battle-veteran of WW, and given the amount of noise being made yesterday, I suppose she was in the noisy part of the pack... but still... I'm not entirely convinced.

It seems to me by your reasoning, Kuru would have been a more logical vote than Nienna. He was an old player, he'd done a lot of talking...

What's more, your vote for Nienna was decisive. Granted, you couldn't KNOW you were the final vote (three minutes before the deadline is early for a last vote, by the standards of some games), but you certainly knew you were putting Nienna into contention.

So this leaves me with the following: Brinn either saw something genuinely suspicious in Nienna--which I must admit I don't see at all--or else you had a different reason for killing her? A wolf saving a cobbler? A cobbler saving a wolf?

Conclusion? Brinn is moderately suspicious.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Duly noted.

And Kent: we keep it fair, in terms of saving newbies at the expense of others, by behaving thusly with all new players. Less experienced players get the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't make for fair individual games, but it does balance out in the long haul.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Having read so far, I only have one thing to respond to (so far... ):

Originally Posted by Nogrod

We only get to lynch one person. We should get a werewolf (or a vampire). That's the best option and we should try to do it whenever possible. We should also get rid of the cobbler but that's the second one in priority. So as I believed Kuru to be "only" a cobbler then I would be afraid lynching him would not give us a wolf eg. our primary target. What's the problem with that?

The problem with that is that lynching a cobbler is better than lynching an innocent, and you can never be sure whether or not someone is a cobbler unless you lynch them. Unless you have a better lead on a wolf, I don't see any reason not to go after a Cobbler even if they do count as innocent.

More later.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Brinn

I'm somewhat concerned that I find myself agreeing with Kent again... always a bad sign when someone seems to think the way you do in this game... but I'm also not buying this completely. Sorry, Brinn.

My difficulty here is that you voted for Nienna... who was admittedly not the most newbie nor the most silent person present yesterDay, but she had a good smattering of both. Now, I suppose it's possible that you saw/see Nienna as a toughened battle-veteran of WW, and given the amount of noise being made yesterday, I suppose she was in the noisy part of the pack... but still... I'm not entirely convinced.

It seems to me by your reasoning, Kuru would have been a more logical vote than Nienna. He was an old player, he'd done a lot of talking...

Buy it or not, I stick to my own values. I have voted to save these types of players in games where I'm innocent and games where I'm a wolf because I genuinely try to be a fair person regardless of my role. And perhaps you don't agree it's fair, but it's how I feel and that's sometimes how I will vote on Day One, especially since most often I don't suspect anyone that much so early in the game.

Why do you think Kuru would be a more logical vote for me? As an older and more reputable player, I do value him more than a less experienced player. Sure he could be a wolf, but I don't suspect him right now and if he's innocent, he could be quite helpful to the village. I was the last vote of the Day, so it was up to me to decide Kuru and Nienna's fate. I admit I didn't suspect Nienna all that much, but between the two I found her to be more suspicious.

[Nogrod]

This one makes me crazy as I'm not sure whether I should agree with it or think of Form being the suspicious one here:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

So this leaves me with the following: Brinn either saw something genuinely suspicious in Nienna--which I must admit I don't see at all--or else you had a different reason for killing her? A wolf saving a cobbler? A cobbler saving a wolf?

Conclusion? Brinn is moderately suspicious.

Somehow I'm bending more into believing Brinn - she tends to play with a set of "values" as I do. These include wishing to treat old-timers coming back to the fray from a long time more leniently (like newbies) on Day1 - or not wishing to lynch the kind of "strong players" on Day1 - if there is not a reason to actually think them guilty (here we differed on Day1 one: I thought there was a reason to believe Kuru was not on the good side, she didn't).

The thing that makes me look at this post by Form suspiciously is the bolded part of it. The moral highground of after-wisdom!

I need to look at Form a bit more as I'm afraid some of these suspicions may stem from just the fact that we differ on many things in this game and it's easy to read disagreement as suspicious if one is not careful enough. And he makes good points as well, to be sure.

The wolves are also perfectly cabable of doing it though.

EDIT X'd with Greenie x2 - oh great!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Having read the last couple posts, I've become a bit suspicious of Greenie now. First, Nogrod mentions her as one of the people he's "afraid of" and suddenly Greenie finds Nogrod more suspicious than anyone else? While I'm not sure a wolf would be so blatant and defensive, I think she needs to be looked at; I've a feeling about her.

[Gwathagor]

Hey I'm here and reading. Maybe I'll have something to post about after that. We'll see.

[Firefoot]

So the more I think about it, the odder Nogrod's vote seems to me. He brings Kuru's count up to 5, at the same time giving Nienna her first vote. It seems like if he was only going to vote once, it would have been for Nienna - and I couldn't find that he ever really says he suspects Kuru that much. It almost looks like a vote for Kuru just because Kuru was a "safe" vote because lots of people suspected him so it wouldn't really be suspicious to also vote for him.

It actually seems rather sloppy.

I see that Izzy also picked up this thread, but Nogrod mostly just brushed her off.

And then this:

On a second note. Interesting how Kuru appears very helpful doing an analysis on why Aganzir was killed - but looking at it more closely - how do I get a feeling it's more a post trying to convince us he's no baddie than a post to clarify the reasons behind Agan's death?

Someone questioned why no-one has suspected Kuru toDay. Well I can confess that I still do.

But I'll now try to look at other possibilities as well - and what could be implied if Kuru is a wolf / a cobbler.

Huh. Like I said, Nogrod didn't really seem to me all that suspicious of Kuru yesterday at all. And despite saying he was going to look at possibilities of Kuru's wolvishness, he hasn't... he hasn't even really mentioned Kuru again.

Right now, my inclination is a vote towards Nogrod... I'm a little leery of this, because Nogrod's doing far more talking than a lot of people, so I'm wondering if he doesn't just seem suspicious because there's more to analyze of him than most.

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

I'd really like to see some other people post before I have to vote... but, as I said, at this point it's probably going to be Nog. And if I'm back before the deadline (I'd say there's about a 50% chance), I'll look at what's new and maybe or maybe not change my vote...

X-ed with Kent.

[Kent2010]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

Oh hopefully not sounding obsessed, I guess that's better than ungrateful. I really don't want to sound ungrateful for the courtesy, but playing "fair" just wasn't something I was expecting in werewolf. Either way someone is going to be lynched first and killed first by the wolves, that's the nature of it. It might be fair to give me some courtesy, and I understand letting me play a bit, but how is it fair for someone else to get lynched first for the reason of letting me play more? Fair just sounds like it should be foreign in here, at least that's what I was expecting, but props to those who try to be more "fair" than I would be.

At least Nogrod makes it sound like a very short courtesy and it could just be I have no idea what I'm asking for.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

To be fair, I think I would also be the sort of person to harp on about being a newbie in a game like this if I were to jump in right now--there's a lot of history between some of the players here.

That being said, Kent, you are officially not on my "probably innocent" list because you haven't made a newbie wolf move. Your reasoning is entirely too reasonable (and, yes, I'm willing to grant you're the author) for me to like it. As with Nogrod, I'm almost more comfortable in this game when there are disagreements to unsettle my gut instinct that someone is on my side. In your case, I have no gut instinct about you, so I'll warily accept your reasonability as a sign I don't want to lynch you today.

Sigh... Who do I want to lynch?

Brinn--moderate between guilty and not.
Nogrod--probably not.
Kent--hopefully not.

And that's all I've looked at today... I sort of defended Kuru as not being a cobbler, but that doesn't mean he's not a wolf.

So far no one looking vote-worthy.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Cos lists are rather lovely. (Numbers in parentheses are post #s where I drew my conclusion.)

Probably Guilty (My main suspects.)
Kuruharan (NIGHT kill! + 311)
Brinniel (275)
Firefoot (290)

Somewhat Worrying (Thinking innocent, but with a soupçon of . . . suspicion. )
Formendacil (315)
Nogrod (299 & 324)
Feanor of the Peredhil (292)

Must Watch (Being quite hard to read for now.)
Alonariel
Lariren Shadow
satansaloser2005
Isabellkya

Reassuring (Cos I like the way they think.)
Kent2010 (300)
Shatanis Althreduin (321 & 323)
Gwathagor (351)

Slacker (Having so much fun with this game.)
Nilpaurion Felagund

~*~*~*~

I'm already forming possible Baddie interactions manifesting themselves during the DAY, and all I'm lacking is that one clue.

Most likely I'll vote for Kuru, and use my bonus votes while I'm at it, too.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Kuru

I'm still working on my big analysis post...but am I the only one who finds Shasta's vote/explaination a little troubling?

I don't find it troubling. Shasta has to keep leaving the pub to go off and work on theatre productions and has probably spent more time outside The Eagle and the Child than in. A bit frustrating, but I also understand it can't be helped...I go to school with a lot of theatre students and know they have crazy schedules. A semi-random vote is better than no vote at all which would mean modfire. I don't mind his vote toDay so long as he doesn't continue to make random votes throughout the entire game.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Oh, darn you, Kuru. You just had to go out and make a life-saving post.

(Well, it means I'm finding you sensible and innocent-minded. I'm holding my fire at you, for now.)

[Kuruharan]

I thought Nogrod deserved a little extra attention because he is on the chop right now.

In spite of everything, including his odd split vote thingy yesterday and his misguided notions about me I believe (at least for the present) that he is innocent and is trying to come up with suggestions and ideas about how to best help the village...I don't agree with all those ideas (particularly the ones that involve lynching me) but they do not seem right now to bear the stamp of werewolfery. It is a lot safer for wolves to be seconding other people's ideas rather than bearing the brunt of offering ideas themselves, and people who are doing the seconding or at least gave me the impression of doing the seconding are the ones that I tried to focus on and Nogrod does not fit that bill.

[Lariren Shadow]

All right I know I need to vote now so I don't forget. I'm going with

++KENT

He is the one I think is most guilty.

Edit: x-posted since 374.

[Brinniel]

Okay, so I went back and looked at some voters from yesterDay I was worried about.

Izzy may have voted Nienna late, but she did suspect her before the bandwagon started up. That earlier suspicion gives reasoning behind her vote; she didn't just vote for her out of the blue. Which makes her look more innocent than not.

Gwath was very eager to hop on the bandwagon with this post:

Originally Posted by Gwath

You're right - Nienna does look rather bad in light of that sequence of posts, like she's fishing for a bandwagon almost. She might just be an innocent who didn't have any better idea, but this seems a far more substantial case than any others that have been made toDay. I think I'll be voting Nienna.

It looks bad, but what makes me hesitant to suspect him is that I believe an innocent Gwath has eagerly hopped on bandwagons in past games. So this isn't exactly unusual behaviour from him.

Sally and Firefoot look the worst to me.

Here's what Sally said:

Originally Posted by Sally

I think I'll look over Nienna's posts real quick and see what the fuss is about. It's possible I forgot to actually....you know....read her post when I went through the thread. I'm such a silly hobbit.

Originally Posted by Sally

I decided that yeah, Nienna does have some furry potential. And I know she's blinking brilliant as a wolf, so I'd hate to give her a free pass for too long and then wind up dead.

Sally seemed to really quickly come to the conclusion that Nienna was evil. There's something about the tone of these posts that feels just wrong and suggests perhaps she doesn't have good intentions.

Sally has been unusually quiet in this game...I only just realised she hasn't shown up yet toDay. That may speak in her favour since she tends to be a loud wolf. But then again there's a good chance her absence is due to RL and when someone's missing because of RL, it really doesn't tell anything about what their role may be.

Firefoot voted for Kuru with this reasoning:

Originally Posted by Firefoot

It strikes me as really interesting that Agan would want to throw a bonus vote out there already - it seems like a rather unfounded move, given the amount of material we have to go on. Hmmm... unless he's the seer... Kuru would be a fairly logical choice as a first night dream, he's well known enough. And that would explain why Agan came out swinging at him.

I don't feel too bad pointing this out if it's true, because the wolves would no doubt have picked up on it already.

I find this rather weird. If you think someone to be the seer there's no good reason to state it publicly. Maybe the wolves already picked up on it, but maybe not and you just gave it away. The fact that she feels the need to defend her statement suggesting that Agan may be the seer in that same post is even more concerning.

Though it's also possible this was a ploy and Firefoot was trying to make the wolves think Agan was the seer when she really just believed her to be an ordo so that they would Night kill her. This scenario has occurred before. But I've never played with Firefoot before, so I don't know if she is the type of player to come up with such a ploy.

EDIT: X-ed since #372

[Kuruharan]

I do agree with Kent on one thing, at least. I find the Greenie thing to be rather suspect suspicion. I may be missing something but for now at least I just don't see it.

I am also concerned about Gwath and Sally, mostly because they seem in large measure to have slipped underneath almost everyone's radar...and that bothers me.

They were part of the Niennawagon yesterday, Sally in particular was rather short on explaination (see her post 266).

X-ed with everything past 382

[Isabellkya]

While I was rereading the Day and completely skipping over posts I'd already commented on, some things caught my eye.


I suppose it comes down to an argument of semantics, yet it still sent a flag up.

Kuru does a post analysis/recap of Sally - Her #358 says she has no idea who to vote for yet.
In actuality she said she had no idea who she'd like to kill yet.

Which yes, voting for someone is voting for them to die. Yet, most if not always people refer to it as voting, rather than killing. It just seemed an off statement/phrasing to me.



I'm a bit confused to Firefoot's #290.

Well, obviously Agan was not the seer. If Kuru is not a wolf, the wolves would have known this, so this wouldn't be the reason that they killed her, as she would have just been an ordo (or a non-seer gifted). If Kuru was a wolf, though, and Agan was the seer, this wouldn't really make sense either since then we'd all know Kuru was a wolf because we'd know Agan was the seer. Unless they just wanted to limit the chance that she'd dream of another wolf... so that begs the question, even though Agan wasn't the seer (say she had a really lucky guess and the wolves thought she was), is Kuru a wolf anyway?

Or were the wolves not even thinking about the seer and just decided that Agan was too much of a liability?

And as for what I was thinking... a potential seer lead seemed like a really good Day 1 reason to vote Kuru. And if Agan actually had been the seer, I think the wolves would have guessed it... that's a little bit too lucky, to just pick one person basically off the bat, and then be so confident as to put two votes on him, and get it right.

Otherwise my vote would have been more or less random...

And just so you all know, I probably won't be around much toDay. Wednesdays are busy busy busy.

It seems like you are saying that the main reason you voted for Kuru was because of a potential seer lead on him via Agan. Yet, if I remember correctly you outed it was a possible seer lead yesterDay. So why would you do that, if you thought she was the Seer. It doesn't look very innocent of you.



I don't think I answered your question in #298 Gwath. No, I was looking at it purely in regards to Nienna. Nog made a post about his suspicions towards her, then the next two posts involve both you and sally agreeing with it. When, there had been no implication from either of you before that - that you found something wrong with Nienna. I was merely stating that out of the Nienna voters - both of yours looked the most bandwagonish.

Kent why won't you vote for Greenie toDay, and why would you "make a necessary move to see she is not lynched", if Nog put his bonus votes on her?


X'd since Form's #372.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I'm not seriously concerned about anyone on the chopping block. Out of all of them, Formy is probably the most suspicious, but my suspicion of him is really not a strong one and is based on a slightly uneasy feeling. Certainly not enough of a reason for me to vote him. And I may have voted to save someone yesterDay, but there's really no one here that I really feel the need to save toDay. Day One is over, so no more free passes.

I don't like to spread out the votes usually, but I may just vote Sally or Firefoot anyway since they are my current suspects and I don't really like any of the other choices.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I don't find it troubling. Shasta has to keep leaving the pub to go off and work on theatre productions and has probably spent more time outside The Eagle and the Child than in. A bit frustrating, but I also understand it can't be helped...I go to school with a lot of theatre students and know they have crazy schedules. A semi-random vote is better than no vote at all which would mean modfire. I don't mind his vote toDay so long as he doesn't continue to make random votes throughout the entire game.

-emphasis mine

See, that word there would be the crux of the matter. Inactivity, I can understand--it is true that drama students have crazy schedules. Inability, consequently to focus on things and analyse them, that I can also understand.

But even so... no vote is truly random--as you say. A semi-random vote is exactly the right way of putting it. But what's the semi-part? There is a reason, undoubtedly, for lighting on me as the recipient of the vote, and this reason is not random. It may be trivial... but it's not random.

[Formendacil]

Well, even if I stick around because the posts are flying, a vote needs to be made, and bed really does look good in the reflection on the computer screen...

++ A Little Green

Albeit, I have a few misgivings because it's a tenuous feeling at best, but she's as far up my suspicion list as anyone is, and if it spurs Nog's one-man-bandwaggon in that direction rather than Fea's or Kuru's--well, that sits closest to my intuitions this evening.

[Kent2010]

Woo finally...now I can actually get defensive.

The first is, as Firefoot mentioned, he seems so defensive about his status as a newbie, as if he is using it as a shield to protect himself from worse. He is the one who is always bringing it up.
-Kuru

It's hard not to when you are reminded about your status everywhere you turn...

Fair enough... I am mollified, I guess, insofar as I don't know you, so I can't distinguish between newbie covering (especially since, were that so, you could assisted by PMing with the other Wolves)
-Formendacil

The people I like at the moment are Form (he's nice to me) and Kent (he's either a good newbie or receives advice via PM. I'm inclined to think the former, given how he reacted to Kuru's accusations of me).
-Agan

After this was when I first mentioned my newbie status

But just want to say...I doubt there are any poor intentions, becase I have received a lot of 'hellos' and I've loved my welcome here, but it does come off as a little degrading saying I'm either an innocent newbie or I am receiving constant PM instruction.

My slight frustration, but that was a mix-up of opinion and intention and cleaned up:

It may also just be grasping at straws--a newbie making a mistake would be probably the one certain thing to look for in analysing Day 1 prior to the completion of Day 1.

Of course, it's entirely possible you're innocent but just not guilty-looking enough to come across that way. It's a problem we've all had, once or twice, I'm sure.
-Formendacil

And today...

If you had seen me in other games, you'd know that I typically like to keep alive players who are newbies, infrequent players, or someone who tends to get Day 1 lynched often for the first Day or two. To me, it's a matter of fairness. It can be more frustrating as first time player, someone who hasn't played in a long time, or someone who always dies early compared to a regular to hardly play before getting killed, especially as a Day One lynch when reasoning behind suspicion isn't all that strong. WW is supposed to be fun and sometimes that situation takes out the fun and discourages the player from joining another game. I've seen it happen before.
-Brinn

I responded in 304. Fea responded to my response later. And in 312 I consided the matter closed:

Ok, now I get your logic. I disagree, but I understand the reasons, and I could continue to argue about this in circles, but I will just say...for myself, just know I appreciate the courtesy but please I don't need to be coddled. If you find justification to come after me, than come after me, I can take care of myself.

Greenie adds her tidbit.

I have to add to this discussion about granting people a free pass on Day 1 for different reasons. I think it's a sort of nice courtesy not to lynch people on Day 1 in their first game - or in their first game in a very long while - unless there is hard evidence against them. Deciding not to lynch somebody because that said person is enjoyable to play with is a trifle more complicated, since the person voted for instead easily gets a feeling that s/he is not as enjoyable to play with as someone else. And that, in my opinion, is one step away from fair play. After all, this game shouldn't be about lynching those you know little and keeping alive those you know and like best, but instead about letting everyone play and treating everyone fairly regardless of whether they are special favourites of yours or not.

Firefoot thinks that I'm being too defensive about it.

My other thought has been that Kent has seemed... a little obsessed... with his newbie status, wanting to be treated fairly and all that... but if he was a wolf I think I'd expect him to play it up differently.

I respond to that.

Oh hopefully not sounding obsessed, I guess that's better than ungrateful. I really don't want to sound ungrateful for the courtesy, but playing "fair" just wasn't something I was expecting in werewolf.

And Formendacil later...

To be fair, I think I would also be the sort of person to harp on about being a newbie in a game like this if I were to jump in right now--there's a lot of history between some of the players here.

So, how have I used my "newbie" status as a shield? It looks more like people are using it as a crutch to not vote for me and give a reason to vote for everyone else. I have not once initiated the "newbie defense" and only responded to it when asked or when I felt necessary because someone else brought it up.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

So, how have I used my "newbie" status as a shield? It looks more like people are using it as a crutch to not vote for me and give a reason to vote for everyone else.

Which is a pretty lovely shield, don't you think?

[Kent2010]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Which is a pretty lovely shield, don't you think?

Only for those who decide to use me as a crutch to have an excuse to vote for someone else.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Gwath's and Sally's votes for Nienna look the most bandwagonish. They seemingly come out of nowhere - as in; literally right after you posted about her.

Like we were trying to save Kuru? Is that what you're saying? Why wouldn't we have just voted Aganzir in that case? Nogrod's case against Kuru seemed to me vastly more substantial (particularly for Day 1) than anything that had been said against Kuruup to that point. Besides, two votes doesn't make a bandwagon.

[Nogrod]

I just realised it when Fea finally posted something...

Now in a game organised by the phantom, what do you think are the odds that Fea is not a baddie? Zero. What are the chances she is Thuringwethil? I'd say 75%.

And what she said gives one reason to believe that it is so.

The only problem which I have with this interpretation is that it all looks even too easy and straightforward. Kuru-wolf is in trouble and his friend goes and helps him out in the last minute rush - and then Fea-vampire comes cleaning up the mess by trying to say those Nienna-wagoners must all be innocent - and that Kuru-voters will get her extra-attention because he's an easy lynch... (that probably is a threat for anyone willing to vote for Kuru toDay as well?)

Okay. I'm not buying that all quite yet but I need to think about it.

Originally Posted by Fea

Particularly Nog. Really? A double vote? Why spread yourself unless you know something

Originally Posted by me in #286 answering the same question by Izzy

Well, one doesn't exactly know who is what on Day1, right? So voting for two people you suspect the most furthers the chances that one of them gets lynched in comparison to other candidates. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.