Staff

[Galin]

I looked through a few threads on Gandalf's staff and I noticed a couple of references to the linguistic roots of Tolkien's names. Any related to staffs or wandering?

Noting Silmarllion, we have 'ran- 'wander, stray' Rána (a name of the Moon), or in Mithrandir with -randir meaning 'wander-man, pilgrim' (incidentally note Tolkien on the name Gandalf: '... to contain gandr, a staff, especially one used in magic' from UT, the Istari).

For 'staff' early Qenya has vandl, if you wanted to accept such a word anyway. It is Tolkien-made Qenya at least (some have simply taken this word and 'updated' it, so to speak, as *vandil, but this is not attested as far as I know).

I haven't checked PE17 as to whether or not there is something attested for 'staff' in any Quenya stage dating from the 1950s or later.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

For 'staff' early Qenya has vandl, if you wanted to accept such a word anyway.

So once again Tolkien gets caught borrowing words! Vandl is pretty clearly English wand, cognate with Norse gandr (by g > w mutation).

One also wonders about Ger. wenden (to proceed, go), OE wandan (to turn, meander), still found in English wend, wander, and the borrowed past-tense went. Both words apparently descend from the Pr. Germ. root *wend- (the old sense was bending, suppleness, thus a supple stick- hence the use of such in wattlework gave rise to Mod. Ger. Wand "wall.")

[Galin]

I checked the Gnomish Lexicon, and there is a Gnomish form (and a Qenya there too):

Gnomish 'bang staff (Q. vanga)'

With respect to Tolkien's sources, generally speaking at least, Carl Hostetter's and Pat Wynne's column Words and Devices (in Vinyar Tengwar) is basically an endeavor to highlight the intended historical connections between the Eldarin languages and those of the Primary World, especially Indo-European.

Of course the question of Tolkien's sources is a complex matter! and (in any case) I am not sure that any of these words meaning 'staff' were retained in the later context of the 50s and 60s versions of Quenya and Sindarin.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I am not sure that any of these words meaning 'staff' were retained in the later context of the 50s and 60s versions of Quenya and Sindarin.

No, of course not. But in his youth he was apparently less "pure" than he would admit he had been in the 50s and 60s!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Is there anybody who knows anyting about old norse? any icelandic people around?

How does one say walking staff?

Is it something like this:

Ganga-félagi