Sympathy for the Devil?

[Hakon]

Well if someone is evil or not is simply perspective. You have to remember that when you are discussing good and evil.

[Morthoron]

Sauron is a cipher -- a faceless blank. There is little to like about him, or anything to feel sympathetic about. He is not an anti-hero on the monumental level of Satan in Milton's Paradise Lost, and Tolkien did little to flesh out the character; whereas Milton created a Puritan's version of James Dean -- a rebel with claws, so to speak. Clearly Satan is the most interesting character in Paradise Lost (to both the reader and to Milton himself), so much so that the poet William Blake stated of Milton:

"The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels and God, and at liberty when of Devils and Hell, is because he was a true Poet and of the Devil's party without knowing it."

We do not sense the rebel in Sauron as we did with Morgoth. Sauron is more Morgoth's accountant, a dry piece of toast who learned much from Morgoth's mistakes, preferring to work his evil through others, and hence the making of the Rings of Power in the first place. We only get hints and snatches of Sauron's character in condensed form in the Akallabêth and Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age , and he is a far more intriguing character in the 2nd Age than ever he was in the 3rd.

Simply put, we cannot sympathize with Sauron because we really don't know him. Tolkien never gave us the opportunity.

[Mithadan]

Sauron is more Morgoth's accountant, a dry piece of toast who learned much from Morgoth's mistakes

Morthoron, if we had a Hall of Fame for best qoutes by a poster, I would nominate this one for enshrinement.

Inzildun understands what I am suggesting here. I am not advocating for sympathy or forgiveness for Sauron. Nor am I suggesting he was capable of redemption by the time of LoTR. While Of the Rings of Power suggests that he acted remorseful before Eonwe at the conclusion of the First Age and that he may, indeed, have felt guilt and sorrow for his evils, by the Third Age Sauron was clearly beyond redemption. Compare the death of Saruman with the final fall of Sauron. Saruman's spirit or shade at least goes so far as to look to the West before dissipating. Sauron's, instead, as its last act, impotently threatens the Army of the West. He has no forgiveness left in him at that point.

But what I am really talking about is the torment Sauron must have experienced at the loss and absence of the Ring. If Gollum and Frodo are representative examples, the loss of the Ring is akin to perpetual withdrawal from a physical addiction. It is pure agony. Does Sauron experience this? And if he does, would you have sympathy for him at least as regards his suffering?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

But what I am really talking about is the torment Sauron must have experienced at the loss and absence of the Ring. If Gollum and Frodo are representative examples, the loss of the Ring is akin to perpetual withdrawal from a physical addiction. It is pure agony. Does Sauron experience this? And if he does, would you have sympathy for him at least as regards his suffering?

I am sure Sauron suffers perpetual torment away from his Ring - it is a part of himself, after all. Moreover, it is the pinnacle of his craft, like with Feanor and the Silmarils.
I have plenty of sympathy for Sauron.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

But what I am really talking about is the torment Sauron must have experienced at the loss and absence of the Ring. If Gollum and Frodo are representative examples, the loss of the Ring is akin to perpetual withdrawal from a physical addiction. It is pure agony. Does Sauron experience this? And if he does, would you have sympathy for him at least as regards his suffering?

First, thank you for the compliment, Mith.

Second, I was aware of the question you raised regarding Sauron's possible suffering. I was inferring that we could in no way sympathize with Sauron in Lord of the Rings, because Tolkien does not allow us. We do not understand Sauron's motivations (save, of course, the basest and most imperialistic). There is a certain empathy we feel for the tortured soul of Gollum, because we came to know him well in The Hobbit and LotR. He is perhaps one of the three or four funniest characters in the books, and we are always captivated by the funny bad guy, aren't we? Sauron, on the other hand, is always looming and omnipotent.

If you are like me, you read the Hobbit and LotR before the Silmarillion was published, and I did not get pertinent information and a fuller picture regarding the Dark Lord until reading the LotR Appendices after completing the story. We meet Sauron with a sense of dread in the Hobbit, where he is simply the nameless Necromancer, and even in LotR he is the faceless great burning eye. There is not much there to get hold of, and literally nothing that resembles aspects of our own lives (nothing gains sympathy more than shared experiences or familiar pains).

Third, did Sauron experience pain having the Ring withheld from him? I don't believe it was the same agony incurred by Frodo or Gollum -- Sauron was of the Ainur and a great Maia, after all, and did not experience the same pains even Gandalf felt because Sauron did not have to bottle his Maiaric power in the mean confines of a human body as the Istari did (Sauron's corporeal manifestions as the beautiful Annatar and the foreboding black Lord of Mordor are more deified than human). What Sauron suffered was nagging doubt, which is a feature Tolkien instills in almost every great villain of his works (certainly Morgoth, Sauron and Saruman). The intense anxiety Sauron suffers seems inordinate to an immortal from a logical sense, but is in line with models in Greek myth. This fear and doubt caused Sauron to 'blow his wad early' on a number of occassions, which is uncharacteristic of a deity who planned patiently over thousands of years the downfall of Numenor, Arnor and Gondor. Though uncharacteristic of his overarching and grandiose multimillenial plan for domination, his sometimes rash, ill-timed and undisciplined actions directly relate to the loss of the Ring or the fear of someone else wielding the Ring. The Ring in essence defeated the maker on several levels.

[alatar]

I don't have any sympathy for Sauron. Gollum receives a little, as for a short while he reforms, but Sauron?

Gollum, as said, murders his friend to get the Ring, and so we can say that it has a powerful effect on those that are aware of it. But Bilbo never murdered anyone, and Merry, catching a glint of this gold in the Shire, does not seek to do the old Hobbit in. Gandalf does not take the Ring, nor does Elrond or Galadriel (and think of all of the persons in their respective households). Sam, the best of friends, relinquishes the Ring by his own free will. Frodo, though caught at the very end, does not murder anyone - Sam - during his whole trial. Boromir, even when caught in the frenzy of the Ring, turns back and does the right thing.

And so why should we have any sympathy for its Maker, as many many mere mortals are in the proximity of the Ring and yet resist its temptations? Sauron *chose* to do this thing.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I don't think Sauron is written in a way that one can have sympathy for him. We don't get to know him nearly as well as we come to understand Gollum/Smeagol. Sauron isn't written to be as tragic and pitiable a figure as Gollum. He brought whatever suffering or anxiety he suffered upon himself when he bit off more than he could chew in creating the Ring and making a bid for world domination in the first place.

I also don't know how capable Sauron is of feeling much beyond anger and greed. He's certainly not human in either a literal sense, being of the Maiar but not forced to take a human form. Not being even as "human" as, say, Gandalf or Saruman, does he feel at all? Or is he all cold calculation? How far down that dark road can one soul go before it ceases to be just that?

Also, I think perhaps any anguish that he would have felt at losing the Ring probably got channeled, over the years, into just what we see in him relating to the ring: a fierce drive to do whatever it takes to get it back.

[Annunfuiniel]

Originally Posted by alatar

And so why should we have any sympathy for its Maker, as many many mere mortals are in the proximity of the Ring and yet resist its temptations? Sauron *chose* to do this thing.

I think Sauron chose many things, beginning with the forging of the rings and then going on with his war even after the Ring was lost and especially after it was found again. But after the One Ring was made I doubt he had the ability to resist its temptations. For it was an essential (even indispensable) part of his very being:

"And much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring; for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency;" (Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age)

And from the Letters: "if the One Ring was actually unmade, annihilated, then its power would be dissolved, Sauron's own being would be diminished to vanishing point, and he would be reduced to a shadow, a mere memory of malicious will."

He could of course, as witnessed, "live" without his ring but I'd imagine it as something equal to having your right hand amputated. Or rather – both hands and legs. And he undoubtedly experienced the phantom limbs –phenomenon, in its extreme: the most vital part of his being (not his physical body; this has been discussed earlier) was no longer there, yet he could definitely feel it and one can only imagine how it must have "itched" and "burned"... Maybe it wasn't pain as we mortals experience it but then again, maybe it was something "more", beyond our comprehension and endurance. Can't explain this very well...

Yet, to set the record straight, I have no empathy for Sauron. He caused such irreparable damage and suffering that it would be near impossible to forgive him even had he chosen to repent. I'm loth to deliver death penalties (as I'm quite unable to give life to those that die but deserve to live...); had things gone otherwise and Sauron had lived despite the destruction of the ring I'd rather that he had been imprisoned and would suffer until the Last Battle. Or better yet: he should have been sentenced to community service to try and amend some of his evildoings (there would have been a loooot to do in the Brown Lands, for example).

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

I can't feel any real sympathy for Sauron. He didn't stumble into his troubles in life; he made choices that led him to them. If he felt tormented by the loss of the Ring... well, he should've thought of that possibility when he made the thing in the first place. Narrowness of vision does appear to be one of Sauron's problems (made worse by hubris). As he couldn't envision anyone else wanting to destroy his Ring, he probably couldn't imagine anyone being strong enough or lucky enough to take it from him. One would think that feeling torment over its loss would've led him to learn to consider all the possibilities of what might occur should it fall into the hands of his enemies, but it clearly didn't.

I agree with Morth, he's a dry piece of toast, and worse. He had the example of Morgoth from which to learn, and to some extent he did, but he didn't learn that he should never underestimate his enemies, or the vagaries of "luck," as it is called. He made his Ring to be the Ultimate Weapon that would enable him to rule the world, he got walloped twice while in possession of it, and still didn't stop to consider all possibilities when facing another war without it. If I feel any pity for him, I suppose it's because for a fearsome Dark Lord, the guy just isn't all that bright.