WW LXI: Grimm Tales

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Gwath's death doesn't surprise me much, though - the way he and Izzy started suspecting me almost simultaneously looked like they had been communicating with each other. The wolves probably thought they'd get the seer

Good grief. Who needs a seer to notice the fact that Aganzir just admitted she's evil.

The only way two people simultaneously suspecting somebody makes any difference to bad guys is if that somebody is a bad guy. Makes no difference the role of the two: the guilty conscience speaks for itself.

++Aganzir

Originally Posted by Izzy

Well, if you are shocked it were not true - it implies you believed they were for some reason. If you believed they were dreamed of, then you believed my Ranger claim. If you believed my Ranger claim, then why didn't you change your vote accordingly? Go ahead.

Easy, Iz: at the time I didn't actually believe (for certain) your Ranger reveal. I'd been thinking Robber Bridegroom for you. So when you revealed, I started to doubt myself, and then when you revealed that you knew absolutely jack (for certain, at least) about the roles of these people you were trying to get killed, I became rather more confident that you were behaving cobblerishly, trying to deflect attention from somebody, I just didn't know - and didn't have time to figure out - who.

In any case, whether you're bridegroom or not, you obviously scared Aganzir.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I'm thinking there is no way Aganzir says this unless Izzy is a wolf. No way. It points out Aganzir as a wolf.

I'm surprised I didn't think of this. I'd made it to:

Izzy = Bridegroom, Agan = spooked wolf
Izzy = Ranger, Agan = rightfully scared wolf
Izzy = Bluffing something, Agan = Robber Bridegroom trying to... I dunno...

But wolf on wolf is a twist I need to think about.

At least I'm finally confident about somebody's role.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Good grief. Who needs a seer to notice the fact that Aganzir just admitted she's evil.

The only way two people simultaneously suspecting somebody makes any difference to bad guys is if that somebody is a bad guy. Makes no difference the role of the two: the guilty conscience speaks for itself.

I don't understand what you're talking about. When I read through the day in the night, I thought it was possible Izzy was the ranger and was just testing Shasta & me (or others, if she was convinced we were guilty). The way she and Gwath started suspecting me at the same time (and with very little reason) made me think they had had a private chat and judged me evil. Consequently, I thought Gwath could be the seer.

And sorry if I'm somehow slower than you others, but it was only Izzy's posting today that really convinced me she's evil.

edit: xed with Nerwen. Could someone explain to me what that's about?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan (underlining mine)

I don't understand what you're talking about. When I read through the day in the night, I thought it was possible Izzy was the ranger and was just testing Shasta & me (or others, if she was convinced we were guilty). The way she and Gwath started suspecting me at the same time (and with very little reason) made me think they had had a private chat and judged me evil. Consequently, I thought Gwath could be the seer.

And sorry if I'm somehow slower than you others, but it was only Izzy's posting today that really convinced me she's evil.

Right, Agan, have a look at the underlined passage and tell me something. If you judge that someone who thinks you are evil is the Seer, what does that make you? (Clue: not innocent.)

[Nerwen]

Okay... in the interests of being perfectly fair, I guess Agan could mean that the wolves thought that Gwath and Izzy (supposedly the Seer and Ranger) were pm-ing about her during the Day without the Seer having dreamed her yet, and it was just the fact that they seemed to be communicating that alerted the wolves– not that it was about Aganzir in particular. (Am I making sense?)

Hmmn... All well and good... but it's just not the way an innocent thinks, in my opinion.

Also, she's making a great show of suspecting Izzy toDay... but look how neatly that argument exonerates her.

EDIT: fixed bolding.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay... in the interests of being perfectly fair, I suppose Agan could mean that the wolves thought that Gwath and Izzy (supposedly the Seer and Ranger) were pm-ing about her during the Day without the Seer having dreamed her yet, and it was just the fact that they seemed to be communicating that alerted the wolves– not that it was about Aganzir in particular. (Am I making sense?)

Yes that's a fair point - but on the second quote, the one I posted in my last post, she says she thought Gwath was the Seer, which is kind of interesting...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Yes that's a fair point - but on the second quote, the one I posted in my last post, she says she thought Gwath was the Seer, which is kind of interesting...

That sort of illustrates what I mean about "not the way an innocent thinks"...

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That sort of illustrates what I mean about "not the way an innocent thinks"...

Indeed. I should make a list in order not to concentrate solely on Aganzir's wolfy thinking. I'm quite convinced we've got a wolf (interested to see how she defends herself, though), but we also have three others, and though I'll probably vote Agan toDay I don't want to spend the whole Day talking only about her. Yes. I should make a list.

But then, I should also write an essay. Gah...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't understand what you're talking about. When I read through the day in the night, I thought it was possible Izzy was the ranger and was just testing Shasta & me (or others, if she was convinced we were guilty). The way she and Gwath started suspecting me at the same time (and with very little reason) made me think they had had a private chat and judged me evil. Consequently, I thought Gwath could be the seer.

And sorry if I'm somehow slower than you others, but it was only Izzy's posting today that really convinced me she's evil.

Oddly enough, Gwath's last vote was for you, was it not?
I don't find your potshots at me particulary worrisome. I explained my Kath vote, and no, it wasn't that solid of a case, but it was down to her and Mith and I made a decision. At least I didn't vote a known innocent as I did the first time.
I know what side I am on, thank you.

Izzy is still highly suspicious. In post #490 she goes into detail about why Agan is so dodgy, gives a couple of lines to Shasta, proclaiming him 'foul' as well, and then goes and votes Shasta. And for someone needing to justify a pretty serious claim, she's not speaking all that plainly.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Right, Agan, have a look at the underlined passage and tell me something. If you judge that someone who thinks you are evil is the Seer, what does that make you? (Clue: not innocent.)

Okay I admit that looks funny (I'm seriously irritated but your comment managed to make me laugh). The point was that I thought Izzy and Gwath had been communicating, and the seer & the ranger could communicate.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay... in the interests of being perfectly fair, I guess Agan could mean that the wolves thought that Gwath and Izzy (supposedly the Seer and Ranger) were pm-ing about her during the Day without the Seer having dreamed her yet, and it was just the fact that they seemed to be communicating that alerted the wolves– not that it was about Aganzir in particular. (Am I making sense?)

Either that, or they wanted to find someone whose death would take our eyes off Izzy. In this light the latter sounds a hundred times more likely than the former, and they seem to have succeeded in that damn well. I just don't understand why she pretty much confessed now if their intention was to keep her alive, unless she's the Bridegroom.

This is annoying me to no end, if we don't get a baddie today our chances are going to be very slim tomorrow, and you are talking about lynching me!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

but it's just not the way an innocent thinks, in my opinion.

I fail to see why. I think mainly about myself and compare I'm a self-centered player because my innocence is the only thing I can be sure about (and I'm a self-centered person because I'm just so awesome).
So, Nerwen, tell me what is the way an innocent thinks. Go ahead. Tell me why you think Gwath was killed. I request everybody tell me why Gwath died. That will not only reveal to us how an innocent thinks (we just take the theory most people agree on and declare it AN INNOCENT WAY OF THINKING), but it will also be very helpful since it gets people talking.

And I am being serious.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Also, she's making a great show of suspecting Izzy toDay... but look how neatly that argument exonerates her.

Where did that come from? I didn't say anything definite about her before she started posting today.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

she says she thought Gwath was the Seer, which is kind of interesting...

Yes and Izzy said the seer hadn't dreamed of me so I don't see where the problem is.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I explained my Kath vote, and no, it wasn't that solid of a case, but it was down to her and Mith and I made a decision.

No it was not particularly the vote but the fact that your suspicion of her looked wolfish!

It's pretty interesting Greenie doesn't find Izzy (who practically confessed earlier today) suspicious but wavers on her. Remember the wolves can afford to be bold at this point, there are so few days left if everything goes according to their will.

Really this is ridiculous.

[Mirandir]

I'm around but I'm going to wait to see how a few things play out before I post anything of significance. That and my brain doesn't function without food and pizza isn't here yet.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

This is annoying me to no end, if we don't get a baddie today our chances are going to be very slim tomorrow, and you are talking about lynching me!

Come on, sweetheart. If you cooled down a bit you'd see that the things you've said do make you seem very suspicious. You, too, would get suspicious of such comments. Of course if you're innocent then it isn't reasonable for us to talk about lynching you, but just don't act as if you had no idea how come anyone could suspect cute little you.

Originally Posted by Agan

It's pretty interesting Greenie doesn't find Izzy (who practically confessed earlier today) suspicious but wavers on her. Remember the wolves can afford to be bold at this point, there are so few days left if everything goes according to their will.

Practically confessed? If that's true then I must've missed that. Anyway, one reason for me to waver on Izzy is that if you are a wolf it makes me wonder whether the thing the two of you are playing at is too dangerous to be wolf-on-wolf - but then, you said it yourself, wolves can afford to be bold at this point.

[Aganzir]

Mira you could for example be the one to start and tell me why Gwath was killed.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

but just don't act as if you had no idea how come anyone could suspect cute little you.

Aww Green you're all too sweet, you're making me smile all the time although I'm pretty p*ssed off. <3
Seriously I still don't understand what was so suspicious in my comment and despite asking, no one has bothered to tell me. It was what I had been thinking, take it or leave it.

Originally Posted by Green

Practically confessed? If that's true then I must've missed that. Anyway, one reason for me to waver on Izzy is that if you are a wolf it makes me wonder whether the thing the two of you are playing at is too dangerous to be wolf-on-wolf - but then, you said it yourself, wolves can afford to be bold at this point.

She did absolutely nothing to explain her behaviour, which I take as a confession. If she was innocent it would be in her best interests that we didn't lynch her, especially given how little time there's left.

And why on earth are you more certain about my guilt than Izzy's? I'm not the one who has pretended to be a gifted and claimed to know who the seer has found guilty (the both of whom, surprisingly, innocent).

Oh yes I forgot to mention one reason I was uncertain about Izzy's claim - I wondered why she'd come out as the ranger since then not just one but two people would know she was lying, if she wasn't the ranger herself.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

She did absolutely nothing to explain her behaviour, which I take as a confession. If she was innocent it would be in her best interests that we didn't lynch her, especially given how little time there's left.

I don't see how it would be in a wolf's best interests that we lynched her, either.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Mira you could for example be the one to start and tell me why Gwath was killed.

And why would I have any idea why Gwath was killed?

In case you couldn't tell I'm here and reading, just needed to respond to that before I forgot.

[McCaber]

First off, I'm sorry about not being there yesterDay. I need to remember my on and off days better.

So it looks rather dire for our humble village right now. I won't have a lot of time toDay, either, so I've got to go with

++Aganzir

I should be back later to take a look at a few more people. But it should be pretty clear that we found at least one wolf today.

[the phantom]

I'm certainly not saying that Agan is innocent, but why does she look more guilty than Izzy, people?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm certainly not saying that Agan is innocent, but why does she look more guilty than Izzy, people?

Yeah that's what I'd like to know too.

Some people are doing a very good job at making me look like a wolf and I can't believe even people I've always considered sensible players are falling for it!

[Aganzir]

Be so kind as to explain the reasons for your vote, McCaber.

Also, you could go and tell me why Gwath was killed. I'm interested in hearing your theory.