why did Celebrimbor allow Sauron?

[alatar]

What if Annatar simply fed the pride of Celebrimbor as he did with Ar-Pharazôn? And I'm not talking about, "Hey, Cele...you're doing a great job on those three Rings there. Why, they rival the Silmarils, or so I'd guess. Can I hold them for a moment so I can make copies to put in kids' meals?"

"You're so right, Annie...I did do a great job. Why, I'm really straining my arm here patting myself on the back."

What of the pride that you can play with evil, take a sip, grasp the sword, steal the bait, traverse the spider's web, and come through unscathed or unchanged? What if Celebrimbor knew, deep down, that Annatar was Sauron, or someone as powerful and as evil as Sauron, and yet thought, "I can handle this. I can allow it to go so far, and when I've had my fill, pull back."

[Kuruharan]

What of the pride that you can play with evil, take a sip, grasp the sword, steal the bait, traverse the spider's web, and come through unscathed or unchanged? What if Celebrimbor knew, deep down, that Annatar was Sauron, or someone as powerful and as evil as Sauron, and yet thought, "I can handle this. I can allow it to go so far, and when I've had my fill, pull back."

That is an intriguing idea, and there is some evidence that might support it. I think by the time Sauron came to Eregion he had already been turned away by some of the other elves as seeming fair and feeling foul. In any event there were certainly some things to give one pause. Where exactly had this Annatar come from for one thing? Who was he really? Celebrimbor might well have had a better idea of who he was dealing with than he let on.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

That is an intriguing idea, and there is some evidence that might support it. I think by the time Sauron came to Eregion he had already been turned away by some of the other elves as seeming fair and feeling foul. In any event there were certainly some things to give one pause. Where exactly had this Annatar come from for one thing? Who was he really? Celebrimbor might well have had a better idea of who he was dealing with than he let on.

That's my take. Other elves got the sense that there was something wrong with Annatar, and so why not Celebrimbor? This person appears on the scene with no history (though if he made up one, I'd be interested in what Sauron said )? At least Tom was known to be - exist - and had a track record. What were Annatar's bona fides - what allowed him to get so close to such an important elf?

I think that Celebrimbor 'played dumb,' even to Annatar (who may have suspected that he was suspected) in order to mine as much info from the maia as possible, hoping to turn the Gifty one out before things went sour.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by alatar

What of the pride that you can play with evil, take a sip, grasp the sword, steal the bait, traverse the spider's web, and come through unscathed or unchanged? What if Celebrimbor knew, deep down, that Annatar was Sauron, or someone as powerful and as evil as Sauron, and yet thought, "I can handle this. I can allow it to go so far, and when I've had my fill, pull back."

There's certainly precedent for this in Tolkien's work. Look at Denethor and Boromir. They both believed they could use the Ring against Sauron without falling prey to it, reasoning that their intentions were good and noble and thus above corruption. Pride blinded them to the truth, that the Ring was evil and nothing good could be done with it that would not somehow turn to evil in the end. Celebrimbor could easily have had a similar failing. I think the fact that he made the Three entirely on his own was not so much because he wanted to show Annatar that he could do it by himself, but that he knew deep down that Annatar's motives were not as benevolent as he wanted them to appear. And yet he ignored any negative feelings he might have had because he wanted the knowledge and skills Annatar offered more than he feared the risk of taking them.

[Inziladun]

Blazes, this does take me back! It feels longer than it really is since I first saw this thread.
I don't think I'm convinced Celebrimbor did suspect 'Annatar'. The UT chapter The History of Galadriel and Celeborn, which seems to have the most detailed information regarding Eregion, gives no indication of any insight of Celebrimbor's which told him Annatar was not what he seemed, until Sauron set the One upon his finger.
Also, it wasn't only Celebrimbor who had dealings with him there. It has been mentioned above that Galadriel suspected Annatar, but it really does beg the question of why, if she knew his true nature, she allowed him to remain and have his will with the rest of the Noldor.

Sauron used all his arts upon Celebrimbor and his fellow smiths, who had formed a society or brotherhood, very powerful in Eregion, the Gwaith-i-Mírdain; ....So great became his hold on the Mírdain that at length he persuaded them to revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and to seize power in Eregion.

If Celebrimbor in his heart knew Annatar to be evil, why would he have allowed things to go that far? After all, in the same chapter there is mention that Celebrimbor may have loved Galadriel at one point.
Granted, that implication is found nowhere else, but even if he had no romantic feeling for her, I just can't see him rising up against her at the suggestion of a being he was aware was truly bad.

[Galin]

This also hails from the Unfinished Tales text titled Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn...

'Now Celebrimbor was not corrupted in heart or faith, but had accepted Sauron as what he posed to be; and when at length he discovered the existence of the One Ring he revolted against Sauron,...'

It is also said (same text) that Sauron had better fortune with the Noldor of Eregion '... and especially with Celebrimbor, who desired in his heart to rival the skill and fame of Feanor.'

Noting too (and in any case) CJRT's explanation that a section of this text was emended to the later story that made Celebrimbor a descendant of Feanor.

[Alfirin]

The Phial is described by Galadriel as being "the light of Earendil's star, set amid the waters of my fountain". Doesn't that sort of imply that Gladriel made the phial herself, or at least that she had some way of opening it and filling it. At the time Celembrimbor was making these things and Galadriel was living in Eregion, she wasn't ruler of Lothlorien yet (she and Celebron had made contact with it, but they didn't come to rule until after she had fled Eregion), so she would not have a special fountain to provide such waters (assuming that 1. Galdriel does not have the ability to create such a fountain whereever she is and 2. the fountain in question isn't some otherwise undescribed water effect she had in the front of her house in Eregion.) Celembrimbor may have made the vessel but it would have been up to Galdriel hereself to put the power into it.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Pengolodh

The Elessar then comes back by the hands of Mithrandir who gives it to Galadriel, to heal her land. He notes though, that it is not for her to keep and that it is meant for who we will come to know as Aragorn, son of Arathorn.

On a side note, this version of the tale of the Elessar-jewel makes me wonder -- because Galadriel would have had Nenya before Gandalf arrived to give her the green stone. I note what is said about her receiving Nenya in the second version, with respect to the jewel, as in this version she had the Elessar-jewel before she had her ring.

Comments?

[John Johnston]

Just to pick up on a couple of points from earlier - I had always pictured the Silmarils as being white light, perhaps with a yellow tinge, a mix of the light of the Trees. I'd certainly always thought of them as being all the same colour, although the idea of Morgoth sitting deep in the bowels of Angband wearing a traffic light on his head is quite appealing.

And for the Rings - my feeling is that the Elves could, potentially, have made their own without advice from Sauron. They could certainly make "magic" things by themselves, and they had great knowledge both from their own study of Arda and from (long ago) the teachings of Aulë. The Three were instruments of stasis and preservation, not command and control, but a Ring-shape - circular, enclosing - is appropriate to both tasks.