WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Thinlómien]

Oh, interesting. Now I'm confused. I was pretty certain I'd find myself dead in the morning but no, and furthermore, the one who's laying dead here is one of those I concluded must be mutineers. I was thinking the initial pack would've been Mac+Sally+Inzil+Shasta. Now I'll have to come up with something else. If there's three (or four) mutineers alive and one or two cobblers, we're doomed. I think we probably have 3 mutineers still alive, in a lucky case just 2. As for the cobblers... at least one and that is Izzy. Nerwen may be a cobbler just as well, or Nogrod. And I don't know if Boromir is stupid or a cobbler but I've lost my trust in him after that performance yesterDay. *shrugs*

I don't really get why you guys had to lynch Kath of all people. All the suspicion there was against her was due to her not being around and once she came back she started seeming much better, at least to me, but no, you stick to the previous consensus of her being suspicious and lynch her with hardly any reasons. I tell you, that was not innocent work.

Another thing that is not innocent is that my case against Mac has gone widely unnoticed. Whatever Mac himself says, I say it's the best backed-up case there has been in this whole game and only a few players even bother to comment on it. That can't be because of any other reason that he's evil and his mates know they can afford ignoring it as my random obsession and the cobblers have realised he's evil and can back it up too.

Off to comment yesterDay.

[Thinlómien]

Mac is getting even funny:

Originally Posted by Mac

One thing to the people who've been complaining about the lack of information in this game setup: Don't forget that the mutineers got lucky and killed the seer right away. On average we'd have a lot more information with this setup. Also, we don't know how well or badly we are actually doing, so I think this criticism is rather early.

This is so like "hey stop complaining we're not winning because the game is unfair but because we were lucky and hey besides we're not even winning that clearly".

Originally Posted by Shasta

Mac seems to be using all his (rather formidable) powers of intellect on barely defending himself.

Tell me about it.

Originally Posted by Boro

Mac will be involved, which means if he's a wolf, we'll get him Lommy. Maybe not today, but we'll get him.

I think we're just running out of time and we can't waste our days lynching people as randomly as we did yesterDay. United we stand, divided we fall, althought the current description of what's happening to us is "divided we stand, divided we fall".

And I will fall into desperation if Gwath is to be modfired because I'm 95% sure he's innocent and we don't have too many of those.

Originally Posted by Mac

It might have been a ploy on Lommy's side (which would make her a very likely cobbler), but not from mine.

Yes, you sure didn't plan to come under serious suspicion, just sail smoothly to victory... and suggesting I'm a cobbler is about the most ridiculous suggestion you can make. I can't think of anyone else alive who acts more innocently than I do - who else has made a proper case against someone lately, who else has been desperate to get the innocent stick together? No one except this cobbler here. If you were an innocent I'd be offended, but as a wolf you get a free pass, because accusing the innocent is what you have to do in order to win.

I really don't like the mentorish role Mac is taking with Shasta. Are they bold wolves or is he trying to control an innocent not on his guard or giving orders to a cobbler? Whatever it is, Mac reminding him twice about the lynch being up to him and telling him what the options are doesn't exactly look innocent.

And somebody tell me mac's cote wasn't suspicious and I'll laugh. However he tries to explain it, it looks pretty bad, especially him saying "I have a feeling we're choosing wrongly here, but alright" and being so reluctant to lynch Izzy. That cries a wolf to me.

I feel I'd love to read through the thread to find out who are/were Mac&Sally's fellows but I don't know if I will have the time toDay...

[Thinlómien]

Shasta, by method of elimination you are hereby a mutineer in my books henceforth.

Izzy is a cobbler and Nerwen and Boro are either cobblers or innocent. Gwath is probably innocent. I have lost my faith in the possibility that he might be a mutineer, especially the mutineers Sally and Mac have treated him as they have. One of Mith and Eönwë may be a mutineer but I don't really think they are both evil. There being 2-3 mutineers alive right now by my logic, you're most probably one.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nerwen may be a cobbler just as well, or Nogrod.

Uh... you know he's dead, don't you? And he was killed by the Hunter, so he could be anything.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Uh... you know he's dead, don't you? And he was killed by the Hunter, so he could be anything.

Err yes I know he's dead I maybe shouldn't have mentioned him when talking mostly about the living... And I know he could be anything, but I think he is either a cobbler or an ordo. I don't think there's anything particularily wolvish in him and I don't even want to consider the possibility that he was the ranger. So that's pretty much all the options and I've chosen to believe he was either an ordo or a cobbler.

[Inziladun]

Told you lot I was innocent, didn't I?

[Inziladun]

For what it's worth, I voted for Kath mainly because of her Gwath vote. As he looked to be in serious danger of a mod-fire, it just looked too throwaway at this stage in the game.

[Macalaure]

Seven possibilities. But how many out of seven?

Possible dead mutineers are McCaber, Mira, Annu, Wilwa, Sally, Nogrod, Kath.
My gut feeling says McCaber, Wilwa, and Kath are probably innocent, Mira and Annu are still likely innocent, Sally and Nogrod are suspicious. There's something about Nog's ghostly influence that makes me uneasy, but as he's dead, I won't go into it.

Two out of seven? Three would be very bad indeed, especially since we might still have a cobbler or two.

One mutineer should be Gwath, I'm pretty sure about that. Lynching him while he's not here doesn't make much sense, though.

Izzy is hard to follow, but I have a really hard time imagining a mutineer behaving like that.

These are the only two that I have a clearer picture of. With the rest, I have a bad feeling about Lommy and Eonwe, no idea about Mith anymore, and feel more or less good about Boro and Shasta. This more or less determines the order in which I will have close looks at people now.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Mac... what do you mean when you say, "Nogrod brought in the innocent Rikae"?

Should've explained that better. I meant Nogrod mentioning that Rikae strongly suspected Izzy for a long time, and that she's known to be innocent and thus should be listened to.

[Boromir88]

And I don't know if Boromir is stupid or a cobbler but I've lost my trust in him after that performance yesterDay. *shrugs*

I don't really get why you guys had to lynch Kath of all people.~Lommy

Please do not call me stupid, this has not been the easiest of games to figure out what to do, but that doesn't warrant being called stupid. You could have just asked me why Kath, instead of assuming I'm a stupid innocent or cobbler.

To answer why Kath, first I'll say why not Mac? It's not that I didn't trust your reasons, it's for myself I am unsure. One minute I think he looks really sneaky, almost to the point where he's enjoying all of this, then next he sounds just as beaten and lost as everyone else. One minute I want to pull the latch, the next you realize Mac can be at the DL, so why was their no wolf-kill 2 nights ago? Plus, in the flurry of the cross-posting between you and Mac, Nogrod and I also had our flurry, and I had only read your 1st post against him, and his response.

There was a lot more after that, considering the bitter mood I was in, I didn't feel like reading it at the time, or I would be voting for Mac based on emotions. I felt it was much better to let me sit for a while, where I could read Mac's responses without having the automatic "evil" reaction because I wasn't in the best of moods.

You may think my vote for Kath was random, and it might look random because I didn't explain it well because I honestly just want to turn off the laptop and go to bed. I will tell you though, I voted for Kath with a much clearer reason, and clearer head, than I ever could have read Mac's.

That's because you assume I suspected Kath that she didn't show up for a day, and that's a faulty assumption. She was sick, I said I would allow her that day off (one she deserved), and would like to see more when she gets back. It was what she said that made me suspicious, and her vote for Gwath...Kath being here or not, made me no way more or less suspicious, what it did do was make sure I started watching what she was saying.

First lets start with the Gwath vote, because that was the biggest reason, and the only one I made, in my haste to want to retreat to quarters.

Well for me I think it's between Eonwe for sleeping under reindeer or whatever phrase we're using now, Mac because I think he's more likely a wolf than Boro, or Gwath not so much for a reason as there's been precious little to work with recently but because if he's going to be modfired then better only one person goes than two.

That was the post where she voted for Gwath...and basically it's Eonwe's being sneaky, could vote for him. Mac's more likely a wolf than Boro is...could vote for him. Or Gwath who will be modfired right? Her vote is as a I called it, safe and saying..."well we already did it with Mira, so it's ok if we lynch Gwath too for it."

Now let's go to what she said. It was suspicious that she was returning to a Day 2 discussion about the "word twisting." Granted she said she was doing it because she did not get a chance to answer (which was correct), but it's just strange that she would start her 1st post back (besides saying she's back). by defending herself from the "word twisting" debacle.

She does a post on Rikae's reveal but makes this totally wierd (not to mention wrong) statement:

Waaaait one second - we DON'T know Rikae was the Hunter? I just read the narration and from it and Brinn's little note could it maybe have been the other way round?

To which I pointed out Nogrod said he was an ordo. Maybe Kath didn't get/see that, but it's strange that after doing a post about Rikae revealing as the hunter, she doubts it because of Brinn's narration?

Then she sees/realizes Nogrod said he was innocent and recants, but still what's the reason by trying to doubt the claim in the first place based on a narration?

In her post (649) about yesterday's action...

Shasta is going to get himself lynched if he doesn't tone himself down pretty quick. It is frustrating defending yourself over the same thing again and again but 'taking a tone' rarely helps!

Now this is just alarm raising...why say Shasta is going to get himself lynched? She's actually been pretty defensive of Shasta throughout, for no real reasons that I can find.

Mith is going for Izzy - only thing is I don't recall seeing any explanation for suspicion there. I get why I'm suspicious of Izzy, and why others are, but I don't recall Mith mentioning any.

Maybe the same reasons as Kath and everyone else?

Then in her next post with thoughts about those living, she narrow ends it with stuff about Boro, Mac, Gwath, and Shasta.

I am always tempted if we do have a modfire going on to vote for that person in order that we don't end up with two people dying on one Day.

She continues to offer Gwath up as a possibility based on being mod-fired. Now she could be true here, I mean I am not going to suspect Kath for something she believes...but this was knew information about Kath I didn't know. And the way she went for Gwath, when she "presented" other options, just looked like an easy way to do what we did with Gwath.

I found another miracle (in that I agree with Mac about something else)...Kath said this about Mac and I:

I said before that the fighting between Boro and Mac was quite likely to mean one of them was a wolf. I don't know which. To be on the opposite side of the fence to Lommy, given that Rikae was suspicious of Mac before she was killed it would seem to put him in a better light. Yet Boro doesn't seem suspicious. I guess by elimination and by the fact that I do believe Mac might be a bold enough wolf to kill Rikae knowing he might go down with her I'd probably vote for him. That said, I am more inclined to vote Gwath because of the modfire.

This really didn't make any sense she declares one of us (as she always thought) was a wolf, based on our arguments...but then says Mac is less suspicious because Rikae was kill, says I don't look suspicious, but then goes back to suspecting Mac for the Rikae kill.

Add what she said about Shasta, combined with Shasta's reaction to Kath's Gwath vote, and well...it seemed like a better reason than going for Mac when my emotions were revved up.

I remember last ship we be on, I said I relied on Kath's summaries for information, because it's quick and easy to read through, and wondered if anyone double checked what she said, because if she's a wolf she can really cause a stir, with the summaries. She said, when she has tried to twist her summaries as a baddie, that is how she's caught.

Truthfully, Kath is one of the players I respect the most, because when she's in and here, she is always doing her best to contribute. That shows passion, and as much as I would like to say it for myself, you don't need 100's of posts to show passion. However, just because I respect her approach to WWing, doesn't mean I won't vote for her when I think she's a wolf. I saw the inconsistancies, I saw her explanation for the Gwath vote, and that's why I voted for her...not because she was sick, couldn't be here, and the came back.

Lommy, not only has my own trust in your innocence been shaken today. But I've lost a tad of respect, the trouble is I know you didn't mean anything rude by it...it could just be the gathering frustration, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to be narrowed down as a "stupid innocent or cobbler." It's not so much that, but I would have thought our rapport would have at least warranted you to ask me what I was thinking, before saying I was either stupid or a cobbler.

[Boromir88]

when she "presented" other options, just looked like an easy way to do what we did with Gwath.~myself

change that "Gwath" to "Mira."

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Err yes I know he's dead I maybe shouldn't have mentioned him when talking mostly about the living... And I know he could be anything, but I think he is either a cobbler or an ordo. I don't think there's anything particularily wolvish in him and I don't even want to consider the possibility that he was the ranger. So that's pretty much all the options and I've chosen to believe he was either an ordo or a cobbler.

Okay, Lommy... but you were quick to call it a slip when Sally started talking about Wilwa as a known innocent.

(I don't say it's exactly the same, because I keep thinking of Nogrod as a wolf-kill myself.)