Frodo's Barrow Dilemma

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gordis

In LOTR there are no cases of Gandalf not seeing the wearer of the One.

'Hullo!' said Bilbo. 'I wondered if you would turn up.' I am glad to find you visible,' replied the wizard, sitting down in a chair, 'I wanted to catch you and have a few final words.'

FOTR A Long-Expected Party
(emphasis added)

If Gandalf was capable of seeing the wearer of the Ring, why would he make such a statement? How would he know, by appearance, whether Bilbo wore the Ring or not?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

FOTR A Long-Expected Party
(emphasis added)

If Gandalf was capable of seeing the wearer of the Ring, why would he make such a statement? How would he know, by appearance, whether Bilbo wore the Ring or not?

Gandalf likely lived in both Worlds and could see the Seen and the Unseen. Yet, there is no indication he saw both the same way or could mistake the Shadow-Word image for the World of Light one. Bilbo wearing the Ring likely appeared to Gandalf somewhat shadowy, ghost-like.

Look at Frodo at the Ford. Due to his Morgul-wound he is more than half-way into the Shadow-World: he sees the Nazgul clearly, the mortals only as pale shadows (but he still sees them) and Glorfindel as a figure of light:

Checking the horse to a walk, [Frodo] turned and looked back. The Riders seemed to sit upon their great steeds like threatening statues upon a hill, dark and solid, while all the woods and land about them receded as if into a mist.[...] He could see [the Riders] clearly now: they appeared to have cast aside their hoods and black cloaks, and they were robed in white and grey. Swords were naked in their pale hands; helms were on their heads. Their cold eyes glittered, and they called to him with fell voices.[...]
With his last failing senses Frodo heard cries, and it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the Riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; and behind it ran small shadowy forms waving flames, that flared red in the grey mist that was falling over the world.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Gandalf likely lived in both Worlds and could see the Seen and the Unseen. Yet, there is no indication he saw both the same way or could mistake the Shadow-Word image for the World of Light one. Bilbo wearing the Ring likely appeared to Gandalf somewhat shadowy, ghost-like.

Look at Frodo at the Ford. Due to his Morgul-wound he is more than half-way into the Shadow-World: he sees the Nazgul clearly, the mortals only as pale shadows (but he still sees them) and Glorfindel as a figure of light:

Speculation, but logical enough. It still doesn't make sense though, why Gandalf would make that remark about Bilbo being visible, if he could already see him, shadowy or not.

[Findegil]

For me it makes a lot of sense:
- Bilbo did not know that Gandalf could see him, when he wore the ring. The revelation when Gandalf would have spoken to him while he sought himself invisible would have been a shock. Reading between the lines we can see that Gandalf would have found Bilbo anyway.
- Bilbo not wearing the ring does provide a better chance for him leaving it behind for Frodo. To secure this plan, devised by Gandalf, was the reason for Gandalf looking for Bilbo at that moment.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Findegil

For me it makes a lot of sense:
- Bilbo did not know that Gandalf could see him, when he wore the ring. The revelation when Gandalf would have spoken to him while he sought himself invisible would have been a shock. Reading between the lines we can see that Gandalf would have found Bilbo anyway.

Could Gandalf see Bilbo when Bilbo was wearing the Ring? I don't remember ever thinking he could.

[Findegil]

For Gandalf that is never stated as a clear fact, but in addition to passages refered to above, we have the scene in the Hobbit were Gandalf seems to know from the start that Bilbo did not tell the dwarves the whole story how he had eluded Balin the outlook when he came up at their camp-fire after the Orc-tunnles. And we have the scene in Imladris where Gandalf looks at Frodo after his wounding at Weathertop and sees more then plain looking Sam. And later he explains Frodos own expirience during his near to ghost state at the ford of Bruinnen, in a way that suggest that he does know what he is talking about.

An additional evidence is Tom Bombadil who could see Frodo plainly when he wore the Ring. But it is a weak one since it can be contested if Bombadil was being of the same order as Gandalf the Grey.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Mirkgirl]

About Gandalf seeing through the ring-veil (I know, technically not correct)... I understand why Tolkien kept out of it - it is hard to imagine him not being able to, being tricked by such a toy feature. Otherwise clearly assigning more power to Gandalf against the ring is not neccessarily good - how to explain that the guy doesn't want to give it a try to destroy or even use the thing?

That being said for the narrative choice, he probably could, probably even the higher elves could.

We shouldn't forget that the power Bombadil had over the ring, wasn't just the ability to see someone wearing it, but not to let the ring lead him to the other side, not disappearing from the land of living while wearing the piece.


Now back to the original question. To answer it, we should first know how the Wight the hobbits "saw". All the groping and the eyes lit from beyond probably mean a sight from the shadow world, feeling and seeing just enough from the world of living to take its victims. So probably it was a bad idea to put the ring on in order to become invisible to the barrow creature. He'd more like had gotten a view of the Frodo Bagging in his best shine and brightness.

Which on the other hand, might not have been bad for the initial plan (save your skin leaving the friends behind). The B-W was powerful alluring fresh meat, that is foolish enough to fall asleep in his range, but being affronted by a power like that of the ring, would have probably taken him aback. I guess he would think that he has made a mistake capturing something he is not entitled to and step back.

Of course that would have still meant saving himself in the moment and letting his friends to the will of the BW. I think this episode was one of the most important part in the preparation of Frodo as a Ringbearer.