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[Formendacil]

You're assuming an equity in value, at least on the whole cash/value of ponies bit, between the Shire and Breeland--which given the contact between the two societies is not necessarily the case. It's possible ponies are a lot more common in the Shire, which is wealthier in any case, so it might not have been so much of a financial burden.

On the other hand, even if ponies are more expensive in the Shire, I don't think cash need be much of an object--Merry is the only child of the Master of Buckland himself. If anyone in the Shire can afford to buy a few ponies, I would think he and Pippin would able to "pony up the cash."

(On a nitpickety note, it was only five ponies--the sixth pony, Fatty Lumpkin, was Bombadil's own: four hobbits and one pack-pony... but that's rather immaterial, I suppose...)

Your other question, how Merry managed to do this without contracting suspicion is a bit more of a chestnut. Speculatively, perhaps he was dealing in a whole stable of ponies for Brandy Hall, and just "happened" to up the Master's order from 20 ponies to 25. Perhaps he already owned two, and Pippin owned two, and Fredegar had one--they're all the uppermost of Hobbits in Shire-society--and they were brought to Buckland in stages--ostensibly for riding home to Tuckborough or Bolger country. And one or two, certainly, might have been bought in Frodo's name--a good mount is the sort of thing you might need once you move from the "big city" to the country.

All ridiculously speculative on my part, of course.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

You're assuming an equity in value, at least on the whole cash/value of ponies bit, between the Shire and Breeland--which given the contact between the two societies is not necessarily the case. It's possible ponies are a lot more common in the Shire, which is wealthier in any case, so it might not have been so much of a financial burden.

I see what you mean, but I can't see six ponies being in surplus - available for sale. If Merry hadn't bought them, what would the owner(s) have done with them?

On the other hand, even if ponies are more expensive in the Shire, I don't think cash need be much of an object--Merry is the only child of the Master of Buckland himself. If anyone in the Shire can afford to buy a few ponies, I would think he and Pippin would able to "pony up the cash."

And no one noticed? I guess that with all the talk about Frodo, and Frodo mostly concerned about himself, we don't get to read about the big pony sale of 3018.

(On a nitpickety note, it was only five ponies--the sixth pony, Fatty Lumpkin, was Bombadil's own: four hobbits and one pack-pony... but that's rather immaterial, I suppose...)

That's what I thought, until that is, I reread the Conspiracy Unmasked chapter. Go back and read it and see what your copy states (and note, as Merry was recompensed for only five but bought six, this would add to his initial cost).

Your other question, how Merry managed to do this without contracting suspicion is a bit more of a chestnut. Speculatively, perhaps he was dealing in a whole stable of ponies for Brandy Hall, and just "happened" to up the Master's order from 20 ponies to 25.

26.

Perhaps he already owned two, and Pippin owned two, and Fredegar had one--they're all the uppermost of Hobbits in Shire-society--and they were brought to Buckland in stages--ostensibly for riding home to Tuckborough or Bolger country. And one or two, certainly, might have been bought in Frodo's name--a good mount is the sort of thing you might need once you move from the "big city" to the country.

Possible...

All ridiculously speculative on my part, of course.

No more or less than my post. Thanks!

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

I was wondering why anyone would have bothered to respond to one of those silly trolls...

About the ponies, though: do we know for a fact that Merry bought them, or even owned them? Might he have borrowed them from his father, or purchased them from those the Master already owned? Then again, Brandybucks and Tooks are odd, to other hobbits, and Merry had already been to the Old Forest, if not far into it. And he knew things like boating and swimming. If he bought six ponies (or five), it might have been under the pretext that he and some of his equally peculiar friends and relatives were planning a holiday, riding off to Bree or some such. The Brandybucks may not have thought anything of it, nor those who did business with Bree. Some hobbits may have found it strange, but not all, I think.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

About the ponies, though: do we know for a fact that Merry bought them, or even owned them? Might he have borrowed them from his father, or purchased them from those the Master already owned?

No one was to know of the conspiracy, and so you would think that Merry would acquire the ponies in the most covert means he could effect. I don't know why he had so many - 6! - as for all he knew, he and the other two conspirators would be chasing after an invisible Frodo who would be trying to give them the slip.

Maybe Fatty needed a few to himself. Or, when the plan came together to leave on the ponies with Frodo, maybe the extra pony (which seems to oddly disappear) was to masquerade as Fatty, who was pretending to be Frodo.

Then again, Brandybucks and Tooks are odd, to other hobbits, and Merry had already been to the Old Forest, if not far into it. And he knew things like boating and swimming. If he bought six ponies (or five), it might have been under the pretext that he and some of his equally peculiar friends and relatives were planning a holiday, riding off to Bree or some such. The Brandybucks may not have thought anything of it, nor those who did business with Bree. Some hobbits may have found it strange, but not all, I think.

That could be likely. It just seems that such an expense and oddity would have been talked about somewhere.

[Bêthberry]

Some more speculation, possibly more silly then previous: Merry had a fairy godmother who turned his pet mice into ponies? And if they weren't back by the twelvth of the month, they'd revert back to mice.

EDIT: sweet thread title!

[Rumil]

Hi all,

I definitely agree that Merry would have had the money to buy the ponies with little problem. As has been said, he's from a very well-off family, the Brandybucks are the most powerful in Buckland. From the family tree, Merry's grandfather was Old Rory 'Goldfather', but he had died in 1408, Merry's father was Saradoc 'Scattergold' - not quite fairy godmothers but pretty good. Therefore cash doesn't appear to be an issue!

Likewise Pip could have chipped in too. Merry and Pippin were both aristocracy, and as close as you could get to being 'heirs to the throne' in the Shire. I guess they were probably considered the most eligible batchelors too!

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by alatar

Maybe Fatty needed a few to himself. Or, when the plan came together to leave on the ponies with Frodo, maybe the extra pony (which seems to oddly disappear) was to masquerade as Fatty, who was pretending to be Frodo.

Hmm, I would rather think that Merry went up to his father and said, "I'm helping Frodo move from Hobbiton to Crickhollow, and we need a bunch of ponies to move all the stuff Bilbo left behind." And his unsuspecting dad gave him the keys to the car... er, the stables.

And I have no doubt that other people in the Shire talked about it, but it probably wasn't more than just gossip-level stuff about those peculiar Brandybucks.

[skip spence]

I've been reading FotR again and was wondering: where did Merry (1) find six ponies for sale, (2) acquire the money for the purchase, (3) buy the six ponies without raising any suspicion and (4) find six ponies for sale in the first place?

I don't see why the purchase of a few ponies would be such a big deal in the Shire. I mean, the country was clearly a rich, well provided part of Middle Earth with a multitude of small businesses we can assume produced items such as umbrellas, bags, cracker- (and regular) paper , tea-pots, pipes, cutlery and even clocks, although I can see the latter being imported Dwarf-made stuff that only the very rich such as Bilbo could afford. I also think it's safe to assume that the Shire would have had a much larger population, and subsequently customer base than Bree.
With this in mind, I don't find unlikely that there would be one or several Pony-dealers in the country who'd have no problem filling an order of six animals, or that it would be remarkable if the Brandybucks or the Tooks made such as order.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

How about the Dwarves? A number of Hobbits had contact with them on a business basis, and they would likely have had animals of the right size for Hobbits. They weren't particularly talkative in public either...

[Rumil]

Hi all, just a quick one on pony numbers,

Merry indeed had six ponies stabled at Crickhollow, but the hobbits only took five with them into the Forest. The sixth was Fatty Bolger's mount, that carried him (presumably unhappily!) up to the High Hay to say farewell to Frodo et al on the morning of their departure. I think its safe to say that Fredregar would have preferred to ride back to Crickhollow than hike back.

Later of course he had to run for it when the Nazgul turned up, but had to go on foot, presumably to sneak out the back way. I guess he couldn't have risked getting to the stable, and anyway would be more conspicuous fleeing by pony than on foot, and couldn't hope to outrun the black steeds of the Nazgul.

So from the Old Forest to Bree there was a riding pony each for the four hobbits, and an additional pack pony, these were the ponies that Bombadil named Sharp-Ears, Wise-Nose, Swish-Tail, Bumpkin and White-Socks.