TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Innocents play tricks, gifteds play tricks, wolves play tricks. Some wolves don't play tricks, too, and still win. The key is to figure out people's intentions behind what trickery or non-trickery they do. Not an easy task, of course.

Hakon, if we figure out who the bear is, the wolves obviously know the same and the bear will die right away anyway. Also, the bear is the role which is among the hardest to figure out and since he is not our side, he won't reveal out of kindness.

That is true. I still think the bear can kill at least one person we are suspicious of.

Rikae, it is great that you think I am like another member but this Hansy guy sounds like a person I should not want to be like. I would also like to point out Phantom gave me the idea of using the bear. His post where he mentions the codes also talks about the bear.

[Rikae]

Why do you think the bear would do what you say, Hakon?

As for you should want to be like Hansy or not, that's your call. He was around right before you joined, but seems to have not been back since.

[Hakon]

Not what I specifically say but what all of us decide. Really once the bear was found out he or she would either be lynched soon after or killed by the wolves.

[Inziladun]

It seems to me flushing out the Bear will be more difficult than finding the wolves. The bear isn't bound by loyalties to anyone, meaning they can freely vote for wolves at any time with no worries. In fact, it's in their best interest to do so, since the wolves are an obvious threat to them as well.

Edit- Just saw Mormegil's post

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Not what I specifically say but what all of us decide. Really once the bear was found out he or she would either be lynched soon after or killed by the wolves.

Yes, xe would ... so why do you think we could have the bear kill someone we choose? Please enlighten me.

If we find the bear, we lynch xem.

[Rikae]

And I think all this bear talk is a sidetrack with the whiff of wolvery or cobblery about it.

Good bear strategy changes with the circumstances. Talking about it on Day one is nothing but a massive waste of time.

[Rikae]

Phantom hopes, but I highly doubt it'll work. However, giving advice to a hidden bear who thinks xe has a chance to win, and attempting to give orders to a known bear who has nothing to lose are two completely different things. The first is a long shot, the second is completely ridiculous.

[Hakon]

Because we can use the bear to kill a possible wolf or cobbler. Morm I am hoping you retract that vote. I am very arrogant it is just starting to show since I have started speaking to the Phantom.

Crossed with Rikae's 177.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Because we can use the bear to kill a possible wolf or cobbler. Morm I am hoping you retract that vote. I am very arrogant it is just starting to show since I have started speaking to the Phantom.

Crossed with Rikae's 177.

Um, yes... I'll speak very slowly here so I can be sure you understand...

To the pain means... Oh, wait, that's not it.

Why exactly do you think we can control the bear if we know xyr role?

[Rikae]

I swear, if this persists, I'll vote Hakon out of sheer irritation.

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Um, yes... I'll speak very slowly here so I can be sure you understand...

To the pain means... Oh, wait, that's not it.

Why exactly do you think we can control the bear if we know xyr role?

If we figure out who the bear is, the bear will either end up lynched or a wolf will kill it. So if we figure it out then during the night phase the bear can kill a possible cobbler or wolf since the second the next day phase starts the bear will most likely by lynched or the bear will die int he night phase because a wolf kills it.

Crossed with Rikae's 181.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Morm I am hoping you retract that vote.

Okay fine

--Hakon

++Hakon

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'll tell you what we told him: werebears are out for themselves and have no reason to help the village. If we find the werebear, he can't win. Village and werebear cannot win together.

Yes they can. They can at least band together against the common enemy. Not to mention that I'd rather the Bear win than the villains, for the Dark Monarch is supposed to be the big baddie here. Plus the Cobbler is on the villain's side too. They are the primary threat. If the Bear wins, I'll be somewhat happy because at least I managed to eliminate four baddies along the way.

Originally Posted by Hakon

Since the bear will be dead either way we might as well try and ask the bear to kill someone for us. It is a long shot but I think it is worth a try and the key thing to remember here is that it only works if we figure who the bear is and since that is not a priority right now this plan will probably never happen.

I agree that we might as well try. Since the Bear is out for himself, if he sees his doom approaching, it is completely within his rights and power to help us out with his last kill. After all, Dark Monarch screwed him up with her attempted gift giving, so perhaps his grudge against her is greater than his dislike for us.

The odds of such a situation arising are very tiny, but just in case, why not reach out to him? It's not like it hurts anything.

As far as Hakon's talk about discussing our surveys, I don't see anything wrong with it. Frankly, I believe Boro intended us to discuss it, and possibly gain suspicions from it (and of course lie about our results). I agree that it would be in poor taste to actually quote any PM sent to or received from the Mods, but I see nothing wrong with stating "I said I couldn't read so-and-so", because really we have no idea how the information was used. If I recall, it seems to me that Boro almost dared us to guess how he was using the info.

Originally Posted by Boro

P.S. if I had a choice between licking a cactus or hugging the Dark Monarch, I would chose the cactus every time.

Not I. Evil doesn't equal ugly.

[mormegil]

Phantom's post about the werebear is coherent enough for me. If I were the bear I would begin to target wolves too. It is worthwhile to form a temporary alliance for the bear as the greatest danger to him/her is the wolves who will be active in searching for him to be sure.

To get things moving

++Hakon

I think him pulling on the fact that I mentioned phantom pre-game is odd and seems an attempt to cast early suspicions. Clearly it failed and he wisely backed off but the seed was still planted. It could be knee-jerk but I still thought it odd. Of course, and as always Rikae is somewhat suspicious.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

There is the idea that the people we trusted were made the wolves, which would be devious. But that is possibly too obvious. Then everyone would just say who they trusted and be done with it and vote for them. I'm of the mind that one of the people we trusted most is a gifted, another is a wolf, and possibly a third is the bear.

I would think that the people who we put down as 'feared' were made wolves and the ones that we 'trusted' were made gifted/ordos. Pretty much agreed all around with ya, Lari

Originally Posted by mormegil

++Hakon

I think him pulling on the fact that I mentioned phantom pre-game is odd and seems an attempt to cast early suspicions. Clearly it failed and he wisely backed off but the seed was still planted. It could be knee-jerk but I still thought it odd. Of course, and as always Rikae is somewhat suspicious.

Though I think Hakon would be more quiet if he were one of the wolves or the bear, I still find his posts somewhat suspicious for the reasons Morm stated above. And suggesting we use the surveys...just kinda felt weird to me Then again, he may also be the cobbler trying to aid the baddies.

Anyway, I have work until 6 and then a family engagement after that (if you see me on the 10 o'clock news, it's because I've murdered one of them), so I'm going to vote now just to be safe. May retract later.

++Hakon

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I haven an idea on how to start figuring out who the wolves are. Boro told us in the admin thread that some of the roles would be picked based on those surveys. My guess is that the people who got put down for trusted the most are the wolves and cobbler. The ones who got put down for distrust the most are probably now just ordinaries. What do you all think? Should we post out answers to the survey?

You're very likely right... at least I've got no idea what else that survey was for. But Rikae's right, too: doing what you suggest comes this close to cheating.

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

I think the most likely strategy, that everyone will most likely fall into anyways, is to blindly vote Day one as they always have, and then look back at who voted who, and who was Night killed for motives.

But the problem lies in this: when all we can do toDay is vote blindly, how will our votes mean anything? There's no point in giving a well-thought reason when there's nothing to go on for us villagers(and gifteds). If we just tell the truth about why we're voting instead of trying to sound smart(guilty here) then it will be easier to distinguish who is who.

Nessa, we Fenrissed Sally on Day One last time (with a little help from our cobbler) based on her suspicious behaviour... it can be done. Besides, the wolves aren't going to tell the truth anyway: they'll say, "Oh, I'm voting X completely at random," whether they are or not. What's the point?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Newren - C htiw snigeb taht gnihtemos eye elttil ym htiw yps I.

?"gnimrahC" ...hU

Originally Posted by Rikae

Why do you think the bear would do what you say, Hakon?

Well, the phantom thinks the bear would do what he says... maybe phantomitis is catching.

EDIT:X'd since Rikae at #171.