TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Hakon]

Morm, thank you for retracting it.

EDIT: I removed all personal content from the post. Now it is just the one line.

[mormegil]

Personal conversations that could be considered offensive such as the one currently progressing are to be terminated immediately. Please delete all such content or I will delete it. Boromir is aware of this.

WW games should not result in personal attacks or insults!

[Nerwen]

Content deleted because it was a reply to something Hakon said at #198, which has been removed.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Why aren't we asking the wolves to kill the bear, too?

Because we know they won't. The Villains like the Bear alive, for he kills at night, and every death brings them closer to victory. There's not a chance they'd help us. It's completely against their affiliation and would not be sound strategy. The Bear on the other hand has some amount of freedom.

It seems to me that the only folks who would be irritated about this fact being pointed out would be the Cobbler and Villains. So I'd let the issue go if you don't want to attract attention of that sort.

[the phantom]

Boro- was I accurate when I said this?

Originally Posted by Candor Man

As far as Hakon's talk about discussing our surveys, I don't see anything wrong with it. Frankly, I believe Boro intended us to discuss it, and possibly gain suspicions from it (and of course lie about our results). I agree that it would be in poor taste to actually quote any PM sent to or received from the Mods, but I see nothing wrong with stating "I said I couldn't read so-and-so", because really we have no idea how the information was used. If I recall, it seems to me that Boro almost dared us to guess how he was using the info.

And yes, Nerwen, I agree that the other issue doesn't need to be discussed any more. What needed to be said has been said. The truth is out there for the Bear to read if he wishes.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And yes, Nerwen, I agree that the other issue doesn't need to be discussed any more. What needed to be said has been said. The truth is out there for the Bear to read if he wishes.

Good... um... can we talk about something un-bear-related? Please?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Reverser

Good... um... can we talk about something un-bear-related? Please?

Mod-God just said we can discuss surveys.

[Boromir88]

Mac's got it.

They were supposed to be confidential and it's exclusively up to Boro to post them.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Mod-God just said we can discuss surveys.

I still have to wonder what we can gain from that. Seems a waste of time when the baddies can just make up whatever they like.

x'd with Rikae

[the phantom]

Wrong, Rikae. I'm not trying to trick the Bear. You're right that the Bear also likes the extra Night kill, but there are three Villains to provide it, and thus it is rather safe to gun for them. You only need one Villain alive to provide the extra kill, and so the Bear won't kill the last Villain I agree, but any Villain before that is fair game. And the Cobbler especially, as he does not even provide a kill but is simply a villager guaranteed to side with the Villains. The Bear should definitely consider slaughtering an obvious Cobbler.

Your resistance to these facts is puzzling. Even if it were true that I was attempting to trick the Bear into helping us, is that a bad thing that you would need to point out?! Seriously.... Every time you try and fight this idea you look very suspicious to me, as if you're a Wolf saying, "No, no, don't gun for us!" or the Cobbler saying, "No, don't kill my masters!"

I have done nothing but state fact. Stop trying to make it sound otherwise. Firstly, what I'm saying is correct. Second, even if it wasn't, it's obviously to the benefit of the village, so opposing it is ridiculous.

[Rikae]

Phantom, I think I see what you might trying to do innocently, but it seems like you're more likely to mislead innocents than to bend the bear to your will, and now that you're trying to cast suspicion on those who doubt you, you're starting to seem less trustworthy.
The bear also needs to reduce the number of villagers - more than the wolves do, even. I've played as a werebear and it's quite clear, in that position, that winning by picking the villagers off one by one is a much harder task. I don't think it's possible to fool the bear as you seem to be trying to do (or trying to look like you're trying) - the bear will certainly judge how likely xe is to be killed by the wolves at any given time and act accordingly, but xe wants to get our numbers down. If anything, the bear has less flexibility than the wolves do, and certainly no motivation to help the village.
As for the Dark Monarch being the evil we're up against, the bear is evil too, so there. :P
If Boro chose the roles according to who trusted whom, wouldn't discussing our surveys be equivalent to discussing how personal relationships or past games may have influenced the mod's role choices in another game? Unless Boro says it's open for discussion, I consider it off limits.

EDIT: X'd with two Nerwens, a Brinn and a Boro.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Because we know they won't. The Villains like the Bear alive, for he kills at night, and every death brings them closer to victory. There's not a chance they'd help us. It's completely against their affiliation and would not be sound strategy. The Bear on the other hand has some amount of freedom.

*headdesk* tp, I should have thought it was fairly obvious I was trying to be funny back there. I may not have succeeded, but I was trying.

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

[Boromir88]

Mod-ruling:

Yes I did mean for the surveys to be a part of the discussion...hence why I asked for them. Anything goes, I will say though that you're playing a dangerous guessing game. To try and figure out my rationale for anything is insane. Plus to point out some was complete random drawing, and need I remind you there is another mod, who had a hand in the situation too.

So, best of luck to you in figuring it out. Figured it'd be a good Day 1 thing. Although, there are probably more beneficial ways to figure out the roles than trying to read my mind (and wilwa's)

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mod-ruling:

Yes I did mean for the surveys to be a part of the discussion...hence why I asked for them. Anything goes, I will say though that you're playing a dangerous guessing game. To try and figure out my rationale for anything is insane. Plus to point out some was complete random drawing, and need I remind you there is another mod, who had a hand in the situation too.

So, best of luck to you in figuring it out. Figured it'd be a good Day 1 thing. Although, there are probably more beneficial ways to figure out the roles than trying to read my mind (and wilwa's)

Well, since we have modly permission:

I have a hunch that Hakon may be dead wrong about the role-picking, and that Boro, at least, may have chosen according to our expectations rather than against them.

[Brinniel]

I think what Hakon was saying is that if something happened like the seer revealed the werebear, then perhaps we could leave him alive to either have him kill a wolf or have the wolves waste their kill on him (as they may be worried that he will kill one of them) come Night. Then we can spend the Day hunting a wolf instead. I don't know if it's an idea I'd go for, but it's not stupid. We can't expect the bear to listen to us, even if exposed, so it'd be all about luck. If the bear killed a wolf, it be more likely he did without intentionally trying, and the wolves would probably only waste a kill on the bear if their numbers were down or they had a reason to think the bear would pick one of them as his kill.

I think you all are being rather harsh on Hakon. While he hasn't caught on as quickly as some newbies, I don't think he's intentionally trying to be confusing or irritating; he probably really just doesn't understand all the rules. And while that doesn't mean he's necessarily innocent, not understanding something is no reason to attack someone. I know for some old-timers this confusion can get irritating, but you should give everyone a chance to learn. Let's not drive our newbies away from this site, okay?

[Lariren Shadow]

Have been catching up and here are replies:

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Lari, weren't you hunter in my game as well?

Yes I was, but I left no hints.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

*logs on*
*sees 4 pages posted during the night*
*turns dark green*

!snoroM

*snickers* I was just trying to fulfill the request of pages.

Originally Posted by Hakon

This is my second game ever. What did I suggest last game that was so bad? Was it the idea of looking for clues in the narration posts?

Day one is the hardest. I think that looking at these surveys may help us on day one. We still have well over 12 hours left to the day. Let us take a look at these surveys.

The surveys could help, but as it has been said, in passing and not openingly saying who you put down. It could be done in code or in list post about what you think of each player. However, the other thing that does come to mind is that yes, probably the people we did trust the most are wolves, but it could also be the people we distrusted in order to throw off our reasoning.

Originally Posted by Hakon

Alright. I will drop the topic for now.

Nothing would stop someone for lying. I just think that the ordinaries would be honest since it would help catch the wolves. The cobbler, bear and wolves might lie but if the ordinaries tell the truth that helps a lot. I also think that the gifteds would tell the truth

Clearly you have never seen Fea as an ordo.

Originally Posted by Hakon

That is true. I still think the bear can kill at least one person we are suspicious of.

Rikae, it is great that you think I am like another member but this Hansy guy sounds like a person I should not want to be like. I would also like to point out Phantom gave me the idea of using the bear. His post where he mentions the codes also talks about the bear.

The bear(Fea) in Shasta's game did kill a wolf(am still annoyed about that). But she was still out for herself.

Originally Posted by Hakon

If we figure out who the bear is, the bear will either end up lynched or a wolf will kill it. So if we figure it out then during the night phase the bear can kill a possible cobbler or wolf since the second the next day phase starts the bear will most likely by lynched or the bear will die int he night phase because a wolf kills it.

Crossed with Rikae's 181.

...so are you saying that during the Night phase we should go over the posts and see if we can find a bear and then...what? I mean, sure one of use could find a bear but there are only a few players who could talk in PMs. Are you suggesting we leave it to the BFFs? Because they are the only ones on the side of good that can do that. No one else can communicate and its easy to say at the beginning of the Day "oh I found the bear last Night!" but its still just speculation.

Wow, I seemed to have replied a lot to Hakon. As far as all the bear stuff is concerned I'm of the opinion that the bear can be inadvertently helpful and kill a wolf or the cobbler but they can also be dangerous and kill the Ranger or Seer. I tend to treat a bear as a wolf.