TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Lariren Shadow]

Mira --> Rikae
Shasta --> Mira
Morm --> Rikae (2)
Alona --> Morm
Nerwen --> Mira (2)

Rikae and Mira 2, Morm 1.

And the Dark Monarch is spleeny pottle-deep moldwarp! (<3 Shakespeare)

[Nienna]

Hakon Voters:

-Morm – weird vote and retract and vote again just because Hakon commented on something Morm said pre-game

-Alona – voted early because she said she might not be around… always the possibility to retract later… thought that Hakon bringing up surveys just felt weird and agreed with what Morm says about Hakon earlier

-Sally – gave no reasoning for her vote in her vote post but in a previous post she said that she didn’t like Hakon trying to stir things up and being laid back at the same time. She said it looked squirmy (218).

-Autume (later retracted) – Didn’t give any reason for voting Hakon… not even a little. Then switched to Pitchwife (one minute before deadline to push Pitchwife over the edge) also without reason. She says she can expand on it toDay. I think it is time for that explanation.

[wilwarin538]

Wild-eye and Hover Girl are both mad mustachio purple-hued maltworms

[Nienna]

Pitchwife Voters:

-Shasta – voted Pitchwife because of his first post which Shasta translated into "No, Bear, don't join the innocents against me and my wolf friends, plzkthx." (392)

-Rikae – first joked that Pitchwife would get her vote because Shasta voted for him and Shasta is a wolf-catching machine, thinks Pitchwife is jumpy for changing his vote when pressed, votes based on a gut feeling

-Nienna- I shall leave it to someone else to analyze me (as I might be a bit biased)

-Hakon – to save own skin

-Autume – See Hakon voters above

Based on looking through these I think I would like to hear more from Shasta though I believe he is busy ToDay moving in college and what-not and Autume is making me wary right now... so I'm hoping she will clarify her votes or else she is looking quite suspicious to me.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Wild-eye and Hover Girl are both mad mustachio purple-hued maltworms

the Dark Monarch is a misbegotten, ill-breeding mass of bug splatter.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Nienna

-Autume (later retracted) – Didn’t give any reason for voting Hakon… not even a little. Then switched to Pitchwife (one minute before deadline to push Pitchwife over the edge) also without reason. She says she can expand on it toDay. I think it is time for that explanation.

I gave my explanation already. You can see my explanation here: Post #494.

Edit: x-ed with 609 down

[Nienna]

Yes yes I apologized! See apology above.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Yes yes I apologized! See apology above.

All's forgiven. I had already posted and realized I had crossed with your post by that time.

[Rikae]

Regarding the vote explanations:

Morm and Sally locked their votes in weirdly, wasting any chance to retract - really, both ought to explain.

Autume made one unexplained vote, and switched her vote saying she would explain the next day, but her only explanation was that other people suspected Pitch. Actually looks rather innocentish, but I still don't approve of badly-explained votes and hope to see more effort in the future.

Alona explained her vote very oddly, with the talk about thinking he was a cobbler, me making the same mistakes, etc.

more in a minute...

EDIT: X'd with Nienna and Alona. Accidentally quoted this post instead of editing, deleted double post, hope that's ok.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Autume made one unexplained vote, and switched her vote saying she would explain the next day, but her only explanation was that other people suspected Pitch. Actually looks rather innocentish, but I still don't approve of badly-explained votes and hope to see more effort in the future.

I learned a valuable lesson. I'll remember to leave explanations for the person I'm voting. I also will be more careful with my votes. I never intended to kill the Seer. It's just the way it happened.

[Rikae]

I thought I'd better thoroughly analyze the people who were flying under my radar the most. I have a feeling I might have been focusing too much on those who suspected me, while the wolves sat back and enjoyed the show... so here's my summery of Alona, Shasta, Autume and Durelin:

Alona:

Day 1

#46
Banter, admits saying she feared phantom on survey.

#53
Banter.

#55
Yet more banter.

#58
Asks Nerwen to stop writing backward.

#70
Goofing around

#73
Still more goofing around.

#247
Comolains about number of pages, needs to catch up.

#286
Agrees with Lari on roles matching survey answers. Votes for Hakon - seemingly uncertain placeholder vote; thinks he wouldn't attract so much attention as a wolf or bear, but still finds survey suggestion "feels weird" (hm, actually, she contributed to the survey talk above, a contradiction), considers him possible cobbler.

#430
Explains to Mac that she needs to be more original. Suspects Hakon ("not all newbie mistakes"), thanks me for defending her, I guess. Seems a little *too* nice, somehow, like she's looking for allies.

#432
Vote count

#445
Banter

#447
"Where are the 10 some odd people that still have to vote...?"

#466
"I think Pitchwife panicked, to be quite honest. I'm more inclined to believe cobblery or bear-ery (?) from Hakon than Pitchwife."

#476
"♥ Nienna."

Day 2:

#526
Makes the odd statement that we "gave the wolves too much" on Day 1, thinks they jumped on the bandwagons. Makes the also-odd statement that she voted for Hakon because he was abusing newbie errors "a mistake that both Rikae and I made". Not sure what she means - I didn't vote for that reason or say that about anyone - and it gives me an odd feeling of having someone ride my coattails or something. Nessa one to watch, the more traps the better.

#530
"Or someone wants to frame Rikae...and then that begs the question, which players would be at an advantage if she were gone?"

#532
Mira doing a great job.

#534
"Possible...and I have another (newbie) question. Are we allowed to arrange our deaths in a manner that would leave clues for the good guys to figure out who killed us?"

#543

Makes sense for bear to be newbie, for bear to keep wolves around, agreeing with Mira, just thought Hakon was a cobbler.

#581
Doesn't suspect me, suspects Inzil.

#582
Votes morm for "hiding behind a vote" - care to explain a little more, alona? I don't quite understand this.



Shasta

Day 1:

#84
Banter, tells people to lay off Nerwen (for backwards writing), banter about voting phantom. Something about the style of this post seems a little tense to me.

#94
More banter.

#94
More banter related to previous game and gifteds leaving clues (sorry, don't get it, wasn't there).

#392

Votes Pitchwife because he thinks his disagreement with phantom looks like ""No, Bear, don't join the innocents against me and my wolf friends, plzkthx.", apparently. Not a good reason, especially considering that I could probably have been accused of that more than Pitchwife could (although I think Shasta explained later he wasn't caught up - but didn't change vote). I took the vote itself as a point against Pitchwife anyway, though, since I firmly believe in Shasta's ESP. Call me superstitious if you like... but look at his record!

#402
Explaining he wasn't caught up to phantom, who made the point above.

#403
Likes Dury's remark about phantom's ego.

#428
Vote against Pitchwife "Stands for now" after Pitchwife's retraction. Doesn't like when people vote to keep someone "more useful" around.

#434
Vote count, plus "Noteworthy: Pitchwife seemed to freak a bit after suspicion turned to him and jumped on Mac's vote for alona, but why didn't he vote for Hakon if he were evil?" - seems to be thinking Pitchwife more innocentish, then?

#454

Accuses Form of lying because of mix-up over Shasta suspecting me.

Day 2:

#535
"Definitely not wanted. What does an innocent morm gain from saying this? Hint - it's "nothing". (mistaking Mira for Morm and referring to Mira's phantom comment)

#539
"You're right, it was Mira. Sorry morm.

Also, one too many e's, newreN."

#578

Votes Mira "for pointing out gifteds, which is how we caught Boro last game"

Autume:

Day 1:

#129
Likes phantom's advice to gifteds to leave hints. Thinks gifteds should make sure they will be found (in spite of the fact that phantom wasn't talking about those kinds of hints).

#317
Thinks we shouldn't vote for Fea. Finds Hakon suspicious - no explanation.

#338
Keeping an eye on phantom because she hasn't played with him before (???) and suspects me because she played with me before once (???) no explanation of that. (I was the hunter in the game in question).

#353
Agrees with my suspicion of phantom, jokes about hunters being scary (in reply to my question about her last post).

#357
Votes for Hakon with no explanation.

#482
Changes vote from Hakon to Pitch. Promises to explain Day 2.

Day 2:

#464
Explains vote by basically saying she agreed with others' suspicions of Pitchwife, if I read it correctly.

#499
Tells morm she's female.

#562
Doesn't think I'm a wolf. Thinks it suspicious that phantom voted last-minute after suggesting early deadline.

#563
Can't decide on phantom, asks for others' opinions on his quote about Pitchwife not leaving hints. (I think it could be quite innocent, but if it's a wolf phantom he could, of course, be trying to cover up Pitch's hints toward a fellow wolf... also, by analyzing Pitch we may be able to find a semi-known innocent, if he dreamed an ordo... worth analyzing Pitch anyway, I think, although this has exhausted me so I doubt I'll be the one to do it)



Durelin:

Day 1:

#358
Seems sensible, but maybe I think so because she agrees with me on phantom. Also considers me possibly suspicious. Thinks Nessa is forced seeming "especially when it seemed like she was sweet-talking Rikae" (when was that? I don't remember seeing it), disagrees with Brinn and Hakon but doesn't seem to suspect them. Survey talk a waste of time.

#371
"Have to say this - Arguing that a Fea-vote is no different from a No-vote is completely pointless, considering that a person can certainly think a No-vote is just as ridiculous...except of course if used as a last minute tool."

#412
Votes for Nessa: "Her posts #151, 154, and 159 are particularly unnerving. Maybe it's just that I disagree with her plain and simply, and that her personality rubs me the wrong way (which of course I kinda how I feel about Hakon... >_>). Basically she seems to be trying very hard to be agreeable and to discuss *something* and ends up commentating on the situation and making really weird generalizations about Day 1 and voting."



I'll post my opinions of each in my next post... too overwhelming to try and post them with all this.

[Nienna]

*apologizes to Autume* I realized that you had started to explain your voting in the beginning of ToDay. I'd still like to hear a bit more but you are looking less suspicious to me now.

[Rikae]

Alona -
I'm not sure - somewhat suspicious, at least. I get a weird feeling of trying to be super-friendly and gain allies from her, and a sense she's somehow trying to associate herself with me (in the "Rikae made the same mistake") - I find myself wondering if she's a mistaken cobbler who thinks I'm a wolf...? Could be a newbie wolf or bear trying to be too likable to suspect... or it could just be her style.

Shasta -
His vote was for weird reasons, and he seems to have later had second thoughts and not changed it. Then again, that is consistent with the Shasta I know - only slightly suspicious.

Autume - My sig says it all. There just really doesn't seem to be enough actual content in her posts - not enough of her own opinions - to make a judgment. A shot in the dark. Needs to talk more.

Durelin - only a few posts, and sort of a feeling of detached commentary about them. Nothing particularly suspicious about the commentary itself, I suppose.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Rikae

#466
"I think Pitchwife panicked, to be quite honest. I'm more inclined to believe cobblery or bear-ery (?) from Hakon than Pitchwife."

No brownie points for thinking Pitch was innocent?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Makes the odd statement that we "gave the wolves too much" on Day 1, thinks they jumped on the bandwagons. Makes the also-odd statement that she voted for Hakon because he was abusing newbie errors "a mistake that both Rikae and I made". Not sure what she means - I didn't vote for that reason or say that about anyone - and it gives me an odd feeling of having someone ride my coattails or something. Nessa one to watch, the more traps the better.

The reason I've been seeming to fly under the radar is because there was so much posting to wade through during Day 1. It made it hard for me to go back and try to sniff out someone who was consistently seeming suspicious to me, which is why I didn't post as much. Day 2 is easier because I'm around more and don't have work, but I am trying to hold my own in the debate now (I hope).

Originally Posted by Rikae

Votes morm for "hiding behind a vote" - care to explain a little more, alona? I don't quite understand this.

He says you two seem the most suspicious, so votes for you. And then he says that Mira seems cobblerish? Why not vote for her? I won't say anymore until he gets back, though, to give him a chance to answer, too.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Alona -
I'm not sure - somewhat suspicious, at least. I get a weird feeling of trying to be super-friendly and gain allies from her, and a sense she's somehow trying to associate herself with me (in the "Rikae made the same mistake") - I find myself wondering if she's a mistaken cobbler who thinks I'm a wolf...? Could be a newbie wolf or bear trying to be too likable to suspect... or it could just be her style.

I think Lari can back me up on this, if you ask her - I am a newbie at this, and as such, feel rather sad when I get votes. I just thought it nice that someone defended me, that's all. And now the votes are gathering for you and Mira - when I don't suspect either of you much of cobblery/wolvery/bear-ery - I feel I should try to stop another lynching that would put our numbers down.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by alonariel

No brownie points for thinking Pitch was innocent?

Actually... a wolf would have more reason to think that than anyone else.

Originally Posted by alona

The reason I've been seeming to fly under the radar is because there was so much posting to wade through during Day 1. It made it hard for me to go back and try to sniff out someone who was consistently seeming suspicious to me, which is why I didn't post as much. Day 2 is easier because I'm around more and don't have work, but I am trying to hold my own in the debate now (I hope).

Fair enough. I wasn't really accusing you of posting too little, anyway, but just saying you were flying under my radar - that is to say, I hadn't been able to form an opinion on you because I'd focused on the controversial people/the people suspecting me etc.

Originally Posted by alona

I think Lari can back me up on this, if you ask her - I am a newbie at this, and as such, feel rather sad when I get votes. I just thought it nice that someone defended me, that's all. And now the votes are gathering for you and Mira - when I don't suspect either of you much of cobblery/wolvery/bear-ery - I feel I should try to stop another lynching that would put our numbers down.

I can understand that. I'm an "old" player (well, middle-aged to the likes of Form, Fea and Lommy), and I still don't like being voted for. That said, though, I defend people because I think the accusation is flawed, not to be nice (I like lots of people here, in fact, I married one, but I don't hesitate to accuse them when they look suspicious ).

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Actually... a wolf would have more reason to think that than anyone else.

I still feel crappy about losing a Seer, so my joy is short-lived. I just hope I can help derail a bandwaggon that might possibly kill another on of our gifteds in the future. I'm not sure how good I am at guessing people's roles - either just from feeling, or from clues they might leave. Again, still very new at all of this.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I can understand that. I'm an "old" player (well, middle-aged to the likes of Form, Fea and Lommy), and I still don't like being voted for. That said, though, I defend people because I think the accusation is flawed, not to be nice (I like lots of people here, in fact, I married one, but I don't hesitate to accuse them when they look suspicious ).

Understood, about pointing out flawed accusations. And I've heard - about the little Wereduckling too! Happy for ya

[autume98]

Originally Posted by alonariel

I'm not sure how good I am at guessing people's roles - either just from feeling, or from clues they might leave. Again, still very new at all of this.

Alona I couldn't have said it better. I feel exactly the same way.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by alonariel

And I've heard - about the little Wereduckling too! Happy for ya

Thanks!

Now, I've just seen a couple things that make me uneasy or just make me go "huh?":

- phantom is repeating what I said again. Not that what I said doesn't make sense, but I kind of would expect phantom to have something new to contribute, if you know what I mean.

- autume made a list in which she basically said she has no idea about anyone (except Mac, alona, Sally and Nienna, who are unsuspicious for no particular reason). What is that supposed to accomplish...??

- alona and autume seem eerily buddy-buddy, somehow.

- alona still pushing the theory the bear killed Hakon out of annoyance, and seems to be drawing on things in the admin thread (things, incidentally, which should never have been posted, being against the rules, but which are irrelevant anyway, since the dead don't gain any special information). If there's a setup going on, that would appear to be an attempt to complete it. I don't think I need to say why the "angry bear" theory is off the wall - I wouldn't insult any player here by saying that they were irrational enough to do such a thing in the precarious position of a lone bear... but yeah. It seems to keep coming up, and it looks oddly planned. Like someone behind the scenes gave instructions to that effect or something.

[Formendacil]

Okay, I have again been banished to the computer to make up items in mockery of 50 years. And don't think I haven't volunteered for this! I could have been playing Kanasta, but there are more important things afoot.

Let's take a look at our list of the living, and see what my general impressions are.

alonariel Very little substance as yet. She has at least the face value of making an effort to be useful, but fairly little to go by. In her favour, this could be the result of lack of time--and yesterday, Day 1, I'm hardly one to fault.
autume Suffers, even more than Alona, from having not said much. In her case, this doesn't have the connotation of trying to fly under the radar--but possibly that's because she's actually doing it.
Brinn Seems a bit quieter than usual, but that might be because Day 1 was so excessively noisy yesterday, and I think she's usually on closer to the Deadline. Not suspicious yet, but definitely not going to trust her.
Durelin Oddly, Dury seems really quiet. I'm not sure if this is just a case of too much noise, ala the hypothesis re: Brinn, but she's just really under my radar. Apart from distrusting under-the-radar types, I can't come up with a reason not to trust her.
Formendacil That's me. I trust me complicitly.
Inziladun I've never played with him, but my vibe from other games I was not a part of makes me wary on principle, and I'm not sure I agree with what he says... but agreement or disagreement isn't necessarily a reason to suspect somebody. *thinks about Nogrod*
Lommy Hasn't been around much. For better or for worse, this is effectively giving her a pass for now.
Macalaure Makes sense for the most part, and is not raising alarms, but, in the opposite of Inziladun's case, that's not necessarily a reason to trust him.
Mira Has been on the quieter side, for this village. She's accumulated a considerable share of suspicion from the village thus far, considering, but I can't quite suspect her. On the other hand, I'm not at all convinced of her innocence. Maybe it's a false sense of safety that says "Mira can't be all that dangerous, even if she's all that bad"--if that makes any sense, it's a really good power to have harnessed, on her part.
Morm I'm disappointed he's not going to be around today, since I tend to need lots of Mormery to decide if he's innocent or dangerous... but he hasn't rung the alarm bells yet--possibly a suspicious thing where Morm is concerned.
Nerwen Has said enough that I feel she's participating, but not enough that I have a gut feeling about her--a problem of the Timezones, no doubt, but problematic in a game played half by one's gut.
Nessa Heh. My vote yesterday on faulty information that Rikae had voted for her. I'm still more inclined to think her guilty than not, but she's said little enough that I can't say I have a reason "why" and I don't know her well enough to have an idea what's normal for her.
Nienna Well, given that most of my recent experience with her (last game) was all coloured in with the fact we were Lovers, I'm not sure I know what's normal for her... but she isn't raising any alarms. That inclines me to think she's innocent, but she's also not really said enough to go off.
Rikae I've been tying myself rather strongly--toDay and yesterDay--to my belief that Rikae is innocent, and while my gut still sticks with that, my brain had the mental twinge of "what if she's guilty?" that I might just be that one ordo who falls for the convincing arguments of the wolf. Well, if so, I guess that's where we are today.
sally Has not been as entertaining as I want--or said as much usefully. Somehow, I think a quiet Sally is an Ordo-Sally, but I'm not ready to trust her quite yet.
Shasta ToDay, contrary to past traditions, I'm comfortable with everything Shasta has said. Of course, he's said very little and intimated he won't say much more today. In hindsight, given that last game he was a Cobbler and I was a Lover, it's possible I'm over-evaluating how much I distrust him on the strength of muddled memories (Shasta's not quite an old-timer in the sense that Boro or Morm are, and my playing is definitely slanted in the direction of 2006ish. All the same, though he's not alerting me just yet, I can't say I trust him.
the phantom I don't trust the phantom at all. Of course, that doesn't mean anything. One should never trust the phantom unless you get to PM him at Night or during the Day, and in that case you should let him guide your every move. Stepping aside from that formidable legend, however, he seems less committed than usual. Is that a ploy? A sign he's not a wolf? Real life? Real Life seems most credible, and I'm willing to put it down to Ordonariness too, but I still don't trust him.

Another post in a bit to see where this puts me (after I make that birthday thing... )

[Formendacil]

So, on the basis of the previous list, here is the rough breakdown of the village:

Innocent:
Formendacil

Not Suspicious:
Macalaure
Mirandir
Nienna
Rikae

Keeping on My Radar:
Inziladun
Nessa
the phantom

Hasn't Said Enough to Have a Trustworthy Feeling*:
Alona
autume
Brinn
Durelin
Lommy
Morm
Nerwen
Sally
Shasta

*All categories, of course, are completely in relation to my subjective view.

Irony of ironies, maybe, the three people I put in my "Radar" category don't really strike me as suspicious... so much as I'd be happy of knowing for sure what their role is.

[Formendacil]

Okay, I'm off again. Back sometime later--if only to make a vote, but the way things are going today, I'll probably be more involved than that.

[the phantom]

I'm home now and I've mostly skimmed that stuff that has happened since last night.

Would someone be so kind as to tell me why Mira is suspicious? I saw Shasta claim that she had been "pointing out gifteds". When did she do that?

Was he talking about when she said that maybe I was Gifted and could PM with Pitch?

Well, first off, she'd already named me as the most likely dream possibility, so she had already signed my death warrant at that point. Baddies do not ever leave around dreamed-of innocents. So maybe she figured she might as well tell the full story?

Not to mention the fact that she was completely wrong in thinking Gifteds could PM, and I'm not Gifted anyway so no harm done.

And if she's the Bear or a Villain, why bother saying something like that? It's a rather stupid slip up to make. If she was a Baddie suspecting me of being Gifted she could either try to get me lynched, or she could take the opposite route and defend me during the day and just off me at night. Much simpler and makes more sense.

The only Baddie who might feel compelled to point out a Gifted would be the Cobbler, for he is the only Baddie who has no say in Night kills. So if you really think she's pointing out Gifteds on purpose, wouldn't you agree that such behavior screams Cobbler rather than Villain or Bear? Or maybe I'm missing something due to my lack of careful reading.

Anyway... I'll be back later after I've fed and watered myself. Very worn out here.

One last thing- did Shasta ever explain his absurd vote for Pitch yesterday? The precise reason he gave for voting for him was that Pitch was trying to discourage the Bear from killing the Wolves based on the reaction he gave to my Bear-ally statements.

First, that wasn't even true. Pitch said the Bear could only ally for a little while, which really wasn't disagreeing with me at all. I had pretty much said the same thing.

And second, there were in fact others who had in multiple posts overtly displayed the feelings that Shasta claimed he was so terribly suspicious of, so... um, why not vote for them? You know- the people who were actually doing what you said was suspicious.

What he did was no different than me saying, "Posting a lot is suspicious!" and then skipping over the actual high posters and voting for Durelin. Just plain weird.