Riddles in the Downs

[Rumil]

Hi Pitchwife,

glad to see you back at Riddles,

Relics of forgotten times, ---- Dark Years
we sit and watch the road that climbs ----- up to Dunharrow
to haunted places filled with dread, ---- the first steps on the Paths of the Dead
our eyes hollow, dark and dead. ------ since we're statues

So I reckon its the Pukel-Men statues.

Is it right?

[Pitchwife]

Of course it's right! (I really need to make the next one harder... but you guys surpass me *sigh*)
As for the eyes, LotR Book V The Muster of Rohan:

Some in the waring of the years had lost all features save the dark holes of their eyes

Looking forward to yours!

[Rumil]

Hi Pitchwife,

Aha, nice riddle, I'd forgotten the hollow eyes bit!

Will now have to think up the next one, er, soon, honest.....

[Rumil]

Well here goes-

What I wanted should be mine,
thwarted first and second time.
Third time lucky's what they say,
but shadows grew from that bright day.

Twice denied,
but now my pride,
was satisfied.
I should have cried.

Victory turned into dust.
First a boom and then a bust.
Taken captive, basely caught,
for good or ill I stood and fought.

Twice denied, then I succeed,
Now defied and twice bereaved
Still not all's bad that hardship sends,
I've lost it all but made some friends.

Happy riddle-unravelling

[Rumil]

Anyone want to take a wild guess?

[Pitchwife]

Oh well - is it Maglor?

What I wanted should be mine,
thwarted first and second time.
Third time lucky's what they say,
but shadows grew from that bright day.

Twice denied,
but now my pride,
was satisfied.
I should have cried.
Three attempts to take a Silmaril by force:
1. Attack on Doriath, Dior and Nimloth slain, but Elwing escaped with the Silmaril;
2. Attack on Sirion's Mouths, but Elwing escaped with the Silmaril yet again!;
3. Attack on Eönwe's camp by Maglor and Maedhros after Morgoth was vanquished; they escaped with two Silmarils, but -

Victory turned into dust.
First a boom and then a bust.
the stones burnt their hands, so they saw that they had lost their right to them and the Oath was void.
Taken captive, basely caught,
for good or ill I stood and fought.
The only part I can't quite make fit. They stood and were ready to fight when they were caught in the act, but at Eönwe's orders they were neither slain nor taken captive but went free.

Twice denied, then I succeed,
Now defied and twice bereaved
Twice bereaved: of his last surviving brother, Maedhros, who took his own life, and of the Silmarils too.

Still not all's bad that hardship sends,
I've lost it all but made some friends.
Elros and Elrond; Maglor sort of fostered them after they'd been taken captive at Sirion's Mouths, and improbably liking grew between them.

Is that it?

[Rumil]

Hi Pitchwife,

glad to see somebody is around

wow, really nice interpretation,

but no, not Maglor!

I'm hoping this one will be tricksy, but who can say?

[Pitchwife]

Darn - I really liked my answer! Now I'm completely clueless.
Anyway, no matter what the answer may be, it's a lovely poem!

[Rumil]

Cheers PW,



is it time for clues yet?

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Rumil

I'm hoping this one will be tricksy, but who can say?

O yes precious, we thinks it tricksy too. The best I could come up with was Maedros (basely caught by Morgoth, twice bereaved (of kingship and Silmarils) etc etc) but that can't be right given Pitchwife's guess.

The last two lines might be a key:

Still not all's bad that hardship sends,
I've lost it all but made some friends

There must be some redeeming moment for this character, don't you think? Hm...

Great riddle, Rumil!

[Morsul the Dark]

What I wanted should be mine,-Love
thwarted first and second time.-
Third time lucky's what they say,
but shadows grew from that bright day.

Twice denied,
but now my pride,
was satisfied.
I should have cried.

Victory turned into dust.
First a boom and then a bust.
Taken captive, basely caught,
for good or ill I stood and fought.0 This entire bit could be about osgilioth

Twice denied, then I succeed,- finally denetor loves him
Now defied and twice bereaved- they thought he was dead
Still not all's bad that hardship sends,
I've lost it all but made some friends.

Faramir?

[Rumil]

Hi Skip and Morsul,

nope, not Maedhros

nor Faramir,

On the cold-warm-hot scale everyone's really chilly at the mo

Guess on all!

[Hakon]

Part of the riddle seems to fit Hurin but I doubt it is him.

[Rumil]

Hi Hakon,


you're entirely right,




It's not Hurin



R

[Pitchwife]

Not quite sure, but - King Eärnur of Gondor? Thrice challenged by the Witch King, twice denied his desire to 'stand and fight' (first by his horse, then by his Steward), third time he rode to Minas Morgul but was (presumably) taken captive and tormented to death -> end of royal line in Gondor. But I'm at a loss to explain 'twice bereaved' and what friends he made in the process.

[Rumil]

Hi Pitchwife,

I like it,


but nope, not Earnur.

Guess on!

[Eönwë]

For some reason I'm feeling Feanor, I don't know why.

[Rumil]

Hi Eonwe,

Feanor it is not,

Guess on!

[Rumil]

Oh, OK Ladies and Gents,

some clues seem to be be called for-

You will not find the answer within the Silmarillion

- enough for now?

[Pitchwife]

Argh! Can it be Lobelia Sackville-Baggins?

What I wanted should be mine, - Bag-End
thwarted first and second time.
- first when Bilbo came back from his journey with the dwarves, second when he left Bag-End to Frodo;
Third time lucky's what they say,
- at last, after sixty years of waiting, Frodo sold it to her and Lotho when he went on the quest;
but shadows grew from that bright day.
- they didn't enjoy their property very long before Sharkey & his ruffians took over.

Twice denied,
but now my pride,
was satisfied.
I should have cried. - see above.

Victory turned into dust.
First a boom and then a bust.
Taken captive, basely caught,
for good or ill I stood and fought.
- she gave Sharkey's men a taste of her umbrella and got busted for it.

Twice denied, then I succeed,
Now defied and twice bereaved
- not only did she give up Bag-End again, but she had lost her son (killed by Wormtongue) and husband (died before).
Still not all's bad that hardship sends,
I've lost it all but made some friends.
- she was reconciled with Frodo and became quite popular for her resistance to the ruffians (also because of her charitable testament).

[Rumil]

WE HAVE A WINNER

Excellent Pitchwife!!

Yes indeed crotchety old Lobelia Sackville-Baggins herself. I was really chuckling when people proposed uber-dramatic characters like Feanor etc.

Excellent job explaining it too.

Out of curiosity, how did you work it out? I thought this one was a real stinker!!

All yours,

R

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey, that was really good. Well done! And really really nice riddle (A pity I haven't checked the thread earlier, it would be fun to think of it.)

How come that people have been coming up with so good questions lately?

[Rumil]

Well we have been trying to keep up the standards in your absence Legate!

I think you will have some serious competition now!

Great to see you back around the Downs a bit more

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Well we have been trying to keep up the standards in your absence Legate!

I think you will have some serious competition now!

Good to see that, that's the way it's supposed to work! We need to raise new champions! (Hey... what about some Tolkien-related quiz show? Like "Jeopardy!" or something... hmm...)

[Pitchwife]

Thanks a lot! This was a real stinker, very good indeed.
How did I work it out? After you said the answer wasn't in the Silmarillion, I guessed it would probably be LotR, and while I was going through the characters trying who might fit suddenly something went bing! in my head. Where the high and mighty fail, the small and lowly may provide the solution... or something like that.

Now I've got to think of a new one again. I can hear Morsul bumping already...

[Rumil]

Hi Pitchwife,

Nice one, looking forward to your next riddle.

I thought I might have given it away by the title of the post, but on checking it was Otho that said-

Spoons! Fiddlesticks!

[Pitchwife]

What? No bumpers yet? Thanks for your patience! And blame Werewolf for distracting me.
Now, after all those rhymed riddles, how about some alliteration? Tolkien would have approved, I think.

Read me this riddle: who rides down
the running road on a rocking horse
with herd of ponies hollow-bellied,
sturdy steeds stuffed with riders?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Splendid riddle! I like it a lot.

Hey hey hey, what about Gandalf? The Erebor company.

[Pitchwife]

Not Gandalf, sorry.

[Morsul the Dark]

Fairly easy Bilbo
On a barrel in a running river with the dwarves in the barrels

[Pitchwife]

Yep! Morsul's got it! And hey - you just beat The Riddlemaster of Amon Lanc (although he was close in a way)!
Looking forward to yours.

[Morsul the Dark]

The unnamed Brother of Three
The Pale Light in the Darkness
From the thieves I was set Free
Older than an age
Can you guess, we shall see

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What about the Sting?

Thieves = trolls, other brothers = Glamdring and Orcrist, they have names (and famous ones), in contrary to this one. It's apparently quite old, and it shines in the dark, of course.

[Morsul the Dark]

Of course too easy sir you may continue

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, so here is something from me.

I'm just the second on His mind
He thought of Other more than of me

I'm just the second on His mind
Although for me He meant more than She

Me and Him, so alike We
Touch the same iron, touch the same stone

We never speak, We never meet
What tells you who We are? Our hands alone.

Unnecessary to say, along with the correct answer to the riddle, I would like to have also the explanation of the various parts of the riddle. (Don't worry, I am quite convinced that if you have the right answer, you would understand the individual parts of the riddle.)

[The Might]

Just spent half an hour trying to come up with an answer and nothing so far... you and your riddles, Legate!

Hopefully, I'll have a stroke of brilliance soon.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by The Might

Just spent half an hour trying to come up with an answer and nothing so far... you and your riddles, Legate!

Erm, sorry... it's Morsul's fault! *points*

Well, but seriously, it's not that hard, I believe. I can always give a hint if need be, but I think it'd be fine even without it.

[Morsul the Dark]

Isildur and Aragorn

"He" could be Elrond thinks not much of him especially after keeping the ring.

"He" though of Arwen more than Aragorn??

both had anduril/narsil
Stone is the one that's got me....

and of course they never met or spoke
But their healing hands would reveal them as kings...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ha! Good, Morsul, very good, you are on the right track. But you are not completely correct. On the right track, but you see yourself that your theories have gaps. But keep it up, I think it's not that far to make the complete picture from here.

[Mnemosyne]

Question: is the "She" in the riddle meant to be grammatically equivalent with He (i.e., He meant more for me than She did?)

Or ought it to be "her," but it was changed for the sake of rhyme? (i.e., He meant more for me than he did for Her)