Fantasy Freaks & Gaming Geeks

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I'll be musing over the idea that Science Fiction is about paranoia of the future but Fantasy is about something simpler. Sounds very much like the long march of Tolkien's Long Defeat. Myself, I've always been very wary of the past because I've always been very aware of those peasants--and the women who were chattel, at least in European history.

It occurs to me - essentially, Fantasy has little relation to the past. It's relation is rather to Faery, & Faery is not really of the past, but of a different state of existence. Fantasy is a means of imagining ourselves in another world, rather than another time. Whats amazing is how close to that other world most of us are, & how easy it is to access it. This struck me quite strongly today, seeing an interesting new book about story telling http://www.thebookseller.com/book-bo...ar/story-world The responses of the children in the video, the way they enter so easily into the 'Faery' world perhaps says something about the attraction of Fantasy - they may have struggled to put together a 'convincing' SF tale, but the ability to construct a Fairy Tale seems innate.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by davem

the ability to construct a Fairy Tale seems innate.

I'm sure there's a wee bit of word play between gnome and genome there somewhere.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I'm sure there's a wee bit of word play between gnome and genome there somewhere.

Don't want to stray too far into Jungian territory (in my early 20's I was an avid reader of his works, & still have 50 or 60 volumes by & about him in the attic, but I'm now vague on the details ) its possible we are talking about Archetypal Images. Don't want this to become a thread advertising that particular book by the Matthews (though I have ordered it from Amazon - think it might be nice to use with the little lad when he's a bit older), but seeing the images of the cards I was struck by a sense of 'familiarity' - the artist's site is worth checking out http://www.wayneandersonart.com/Gall...Galleries.html - he has some nice stuff, including a very impressive 'Smaug' http://www.wayneandersonart.com/Gall...Dragons.html#4, or one of my favourites http://www.wayneandersonart.com/Gall..._images.html#5.

Its as if in some way these images are almost 'familiar' - as is all the Fairy Tale world, & encountering them is more akin to remembering than discovering something new. If that makes sense...

[Bêthberry]

One could spend a great deal of time perusing those links, davem. Anderson is a prolific and entertaining artist. Thanks for them.

As for the Jungian stuff, you know, I don't think we've ever had a thread which specifiucally addressed Tolkien in terms of Jungian psychology. I can think of several parts of discussions on various threads, but nothing with the kind of focus you are suggesting here. And if I can't remember it, why, that surely must mean I'm too lazy to do a search function for the topic.

Why don't you consider starting such a discussion in Books? I'm not well versed in Jung but would certainly be interested and I suspect our Moddess would as well.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

We did have a link to an online article on the LotR as a tale of individuation, which is certaily Jungian. There is also a new book out that could fit into the category. I'll attempt to locate both later on.

[alatar]

In the article I like the part about "the coming of age." What, considering our cultures, is our right of passage, especially for males? Where is the vision quest, the challenge, the coming/passing through? How does the lack of official said right of passage affect us as persons and as a culture? Does this explain the growth of the online games where anyone can face down fears with the ultimate backup of 'redo'?

Also I would agree with the part about a virtual gaming being a catharsis.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Where the Shadows Lie: A Jungian Interpretation of Tolkiens the Lord of the Rings by Pia Skogemann is the book mentioned above. (link to Amazon)

"Archetypes in Faerie" is the thread that links to the online article "Tolkien: Archetype and Word", by Patrick Grant.

[davem]

Originally Posted by alatar

What, considering our cultures, is our right of passage, especially for males? Where is the vision quest, the challenge, the coming/passing through? How does the lack of official said right of passage affect us as persons and as a culture?

We don't really have a 'culture' to be initiated into, or any kind of cultural identity - just the silly fantasy versions constructed by Nationalist groups. Hence, a rite of passage in the older sense is impossible. Of course, there will always be individual "rites of passage" - first job, first sex, marriage, birth of your first child, etc, etc. And for the religious there is the Bar Mitzvah, or Confirmation, so I don't think we are entirely without the rituals of transition/integration - they simply have a different form.

Yet, the existence of Archetypal figures/events, particularly in fantasy/fairy stories, & the familiarity of these figures & events, seems to point to a mythical substrate to our lives - the schoolchildren using those story cards seemed perfectly at home with figures like The Younger Son & The Man in the Moon. They are beings of the imagination - but of the collective rather than individual consciousness. What I don't know is to what extent our response to Tolkien is to do with these 'shared' images/situations, ie the 'Archetypal' dimension - which may possibly account for the sense of 'recognition' we feel on encountering Middle-earth.