Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Nogrod]

Heh, you Foley had posted as well... I had thought the landlords would stay in the saddles and show their superiority that way and be away quite quickly, but as you both have unmounted them, then let's go with it and write them inside.

We're in no hurry anyway.

[Nogrod]

Okay. A few things in general but taking as examples two parts of Groin's post and one from Foley.

Originally Posted by Groin

The soldiers holding shimmering spears glared at the settlers standing around. Erbrand met the stare of one and got the most unsettling smile he had ever seen. They seemed destined to kill. If they were any reflection on the lords that commanded them, lady Saeryn and Thornden were in for a rough counsel.

Let's just remember these soldiers are the riders of Rohan... They're not just a bunch of baddies roaming around bloodthirsty. And they serve their legally appointed lords with honour as good as they can. That sure doesn't include a thirst to get a chance to impale women and children of their own kin... or just kill anyone for pleasure.

And the same goes - with a lesser extent - to the landlords. They are appointed by the king to their settlements and are war-heroes from the Pelennor Fields, coming from noble families. With them there sure is the fact that power may have corrupted them during the years and they would not be so "good" anymore in everything.

But if a band of orcs - or any dark or foreign force - would try to invade West Emnet you'd see these lords fight with their riders in the first row - and to fight valiantly for home and country.

So let's make this a little less black and white among the Rohanians?

Also, I think you might wish to change the tone of this just a bit - looking at the things I've said above.

Originally Posted by Groin

Erbrand could only hear mumbling, but from the countenance that they bore, it was not flattering talk they were using to describe lady Saeryn.

First of all I don't think the nobles would be that foolish to be like that when talking of a lady that clearly seemed to be in charge of a place in that way. I mean it is a different thing to mock a gathering of a crowd in general than to make harsh remarks on someone in particular. Not to speak if that particular person is a woman of clearly higher stature than just a peasant's wife.

I think what Foley wrote would be just at the edge of believability:

Originally Posted by Foley

“We will not banter with a woman concerning our lands and our money,”

One of them might say that, but probably not all. I'll take it now for granted one of them will say it... it will probably be the young Faramund (and Tancred or Alboin will let him know how wise they thought that comment was afterwards)

Secondly, making degrading personal remarks on Saeryn would not help them in anyway if they would be forced into real discussions and they would know it. They're no fools. If they were, they would not have been landlords for too many days. But these ones have affirmed their reign around these lands for a long time.

It doesn't mean they would honour Saeryn or think highly of her, on the contrary they might scorn her in their thoughts, but it would temper their actions in public anyway.

Remember, they're not a bunch of brigands or bandits but noblemen from Rohan (with their vices to be sure).


Sorry if I sound like nit-picking here - and I will not do that later when we are once again writing together as the Mead Hall... But I just hope you wouldn't make the landlords just plain evil scum... or make the Riders of Rohan willing bloodthirsty butcherers of their own kin.

Or if it is a majority feeling we should do that, then we could go for it. But I think the oncoming twists our characters face (fex. their loyalties to the new eorl etc.) would be much more interesting if the neighbouring landlords were not just simply Morgoth's servants...


~*~

And if the main thing has been lost here with all this, then let me say it openly.

I liked the way you Groin took advantage of the situation writing Erbrand going for Kara to protect her - and I liked the way you Foley made Saeryn collect herself to play the role she is required to play.

On these more important issues you are doing great! Much better I could have ever imagined myself to write them. So even if this was a long post the issue is small after all... or a kind of a general one relating more to the general settings of the Mead Hall.

[Nogrod]

Heh, a little add-on...

I was looking back at the posts and saw I had written especially Faramund as quite a rotten apple - and he will be one to be sure!

But then again Tancred had wisdom to call him to cut it... and in the end (after the general scorn) he called for listening what the Mead Hall people had to say.


So it was probably my fault as well to give a too harsh picture of these noblemen in their first post - even if I thought they would all have different personalities and backgrounds and act accordingly. It's clear that can't be known by you if you just read one post...

They're not nice guys anyone, I can tell you. But let's just assume they're no fools to make their position unbearable (well, Faramund might be stupid enough but the other two would hold him back and let him know about it afterwards).

[Thinlómien]

Okay, then one word from me - sort of in defense of Groin - I don't think what the writers write is the objective truth, rather their character's subjective interpretation. Erbrand, a common man could find a not-so-happy-looking bunch of warriors threatening and get a bloodthirsty impression of them. And likewise, if there was just a little talk when Saeryn had sort of taken the floor (or whenever it was) Erbrand could just imagine they're talking about her in an ugly way (Groin said he didn't hear the words) even if they were really talking about the general condition of Scarburg or even grumbling about the lousy weather. So I wouldn't take these subjective hostile/bad impressions as the truth, especially from characters like Erbrand who is slightly paranoid and hot-headed anyway.

So in short - I would say, Groin, of course edit your post if you feel Nogrod's description/explanation made you feel you should, but if it's characteristic of Erbrand to take this kind of view, just ignore his whining.

[Thinlómien]

See, the boys aren't up to making too much trouble... yet.

It just occured to me that it might be more helpful if the player/character list was arranged so that the old and the new folk would be separately. Does anybody else think it should be so, or is it good the way it is? (Because if many agree with me, we can ask pio to change it, but if not, let's let it be, it's understandable enough like that. )

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

It just occured to me that it might be more helpful if the player/character list was arranged so that the old and the new folk would be separately. Does anybody else think it should be so, or is it good the way it is? (Because if many agree with me, we can ask pio to change it, but if not, let's let it be, it's understandable enough like that. )

I would call it discrimination But really, I don't have a preferrence, but then, if somebody thinks it will be somehow helpful... but then again: you "old" people would know who is "new" and who is "old", and for the "new" people, everybody is new anyway, so it does not make much sense.

Also, it would be slightly confusing if somebody, f.ex. Nogrod, has characters in both the "old" and "new" bunch, and how would you want to do that - you would only have two Nogrods on the player list, which will just create confusion.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lommy

So in short - I would say, Groin, of course edit your post if you feel Nogrod's description/explanation made you feel you should, but if it's characteristic of Erbrand to take this kind of view, just ignore his whining.

Heh... exactly.

*"Whining"? *

Okay, I might have taken Erbrand's description of the scene also containing some "objective descriptions" of it, but it's just fine and dandy to think of them as Erbrand's POVs. So no problem there.

But it was probably good that I had the reason to write what those landlords and their soldiers are so that we'd all be at about the same wavelength with them (and that doesn't mean all our characters would have to share the same POV - just that we writers see it).

Nice post Lommy...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

*"Whining"? : )*

Just making fun of you, as always.

Originally Posted by Noggie

But it was probably good that I had the reason to write what those landlords and their soldiers are so that we'd all be at about the same wavelength with them (and that doesn't mean all our characters would have to share the same POV - just that we writers see it).

Yes, I think it was good you wrote that (somehow I managed to leave that out from my whining ).

And just in case it isn't clear from my post, the ones in the hall are: Saeryn and Thornden (of course) and Raedwald and Matrim as the "senior" "officers" () and Ginna and Modtryth as servants (although Ginna is right now to serve ale with Kara) + the three landlords and their advisors (probably one advisor each). Any protests/suggestions about the people present are welcome.

PS. Eönwë and Gwath, when you have time, please come up with bios for Wilcred and Raedwald.