TIG LXIX: Meeting at the House of Usher

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Let's start with the begging time then as I can see that as our only possibility.

Our lives are in your hands, oh deeply respected lovers. *bows deep*

Well, your precise circumstances depend on who exactly ‘you’ are. But, whoever (or whatever) you are, this is not strictly true. Your destiny still lies in your own hands (or paws, as the case may be).

Originally Posted by Nog

We know you fine and gracious lovers could call this game off already by making a voting-alliance with the wolves.

That’s really rather up to the Wolves, don’t you think?

Originally Posted by Nog

But would you wish the game to end that unsportily?

It’s not at all unsporting from our perspective. Given how difficult it is for Lovers to win, surely you can’t blame us for seeking to make the best of the circumstances in which we find ourselves.

Originally Posted by Nog

I'm appealing to the "player" in you, to your inner detective wishing and willing to try and solve a mystery …

Oh, believe me, my ‘inner detective’ is not idle. He is just choosing not to make his deductions and suspicions public.

Originally Posted by Nog

Otherwise it's just meaningless even to try anything toDay.

Come now, Noggie, this is poppycock, and you know it. If the Innocents find another Wolf toDay, then it is very much still game on. If they do not, then they probably lose.

And the playing field is not too uneven. The Innocents benefit from our revelation in that they have the advantage of being able to eliminate us from their enquiries (and I hardly think that it is in our interests to give them any further advantage). The Wolves, on the other hand, know that we are open to offers, should the situation arise whereby we can both share the victory.

Originally Posted by Pookie

So if they take that route, then Sauce and I are irrelevant.

Save, of course that, if it becomes clear that they have taken that route, we shall be doing our darndest to ensure a Village victory.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Save, of course that, if it becomes clear that they have taken that route, we shall be doing our darndest to ensure a Village victory.

Clearly. I desire that this game should be ended on our terms.

[Nogrod]

I kind of hate myself spending time on this Saucie, but I just can't help making this. You guys are just... well, let it not be mentioned as they call this "family friendly" site...

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

That’s really rather up to the Wolves, don’t you think?

So no self-humiliation is enough for you? I actually wrote another non family-friendly sentence here but then realised how true you are... Of course you wait on them to suggest the deal to you - and then you decide whether to grab it or not... of course... So if the wolves "propose" you, you then decide whether to win with them or play it against them. So the power is in your hands. Ergo, there's little we can do as it all hangs with the wolves either proposing you a deal or not - and you either accepting it or not?

Looked from that perspective the following gets into quite a different light...

It’s not at all unsporting from our perspective. Given how difficult it is for Lovers to win, surely you can’t blame us for seeking to make the best of the circumstances in which we find ourselves.

So difficult indeed... all you have to do is to sit back and relax. So let me at least try to rip you from the glory of winning as lovers. There's no heroic in there. Really. "You go through where the fence is the lowest" - sorry the Finnish idiom, but you probably get the meaning.

Come now, Noggie, this is poppycock, and you know it. If the Innocents find another Wolf toDay, then it is very much still game on. If they do not, then they probably lose.

Which I have to take that you will not move a finger toDay but just gloat? Unless the wolves make a proposition to you which you then think whether you accept or not? So whatever we do, it will be your decision how this ends... *weak lovers, hard to win, very sporty indeed...*

And the playing field is not too uneven. The Innocents benefit from our revelation in that they have the advantage of being able to eliminate us from their enquiries (and I hardly think that it is in our interests to give them any further advantage). The Wolves, on the other hand, know that we are open to offers, should the situation arise whereby we can both share the victory.

So true (as a depiction) and so wrong (morally)...


Okay, to be honest... and no offence. I just had to make this to calm down in front of your annoying opportunistic neutrality. I can see & understand what you do, but I would have expected some sportsmanship from you two...

Wouldn't it be even more fun to say "Hi there, we're playing for the village toDay... let's see to whom shall we play toMorrow" instead of waiting around whether the wolves would like to end it all with a deal made toDay - and making everything and anything we do toDay totally redundant? And a most boring last Days as everything is just awaiting the execution of the outcome?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

You could always try to speed things up by negotiating with the other team.

"What do you say we kill Sauce and Fea and get back to the fun?"

That could be fun to watch...

[The Saucepan Man]

Nog, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that our approach guarantees us victory. That is by no means the case. Nor is it the case that the Wolves can simply waltz in and guarantee themselves victory, not toDay at least. There are risks for them in trying that. And, as my better half has already pointed out, they might well prefer to take a risk and go for the sole win anyway.

What would you have us do? Play nobly but suicidally? If we start trying to point out Wolves, do you think that they are really going to let us hang around for much longer? They might choose not to anyway. But really, I hardly think it unsporting for us to try play the hand of cards that we have been dealt as best we can.

Now, let's hear no more of this. If you are innocent, you should be out hunting Wolves rather than bemoaning perfectly valid strategies just because you don't agree with them.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Nor is it the case that the Wolves can simply waltz in and guarantee themselves victory, not toDay at least.

Heh, they can't by numbers... toDay at least, but they can make a pact with you toDay to ensure their/your shared victory toMorrow...

You know that.

There are risks for them in trying that.

I can see that. And actually I lay my hopes on that risk being too big for them - your erraticness could just turn it over to our side as well. What I try to say, it is just up for your grabs. Well until either side wishes to do away with you... (and that I can see as your only fear) it then becomes a question which side could afford trying it - and it seems not to be an easy question to answer... I mean how could I count for other innocents to take my side if I rallied against you - or whether the one remaining of you would not kill one of us (well me, out of annoyance to your roles as you seem to vote)? Divide and conquer? Right? Anyone rising up against you would be your first kill-target. Nice way to keep people from trying it in a situation where every death counts.

And anyway, the wolves can make a pact of trying something in concerto during the Night but we can't - and as the results are non-fathomable there is no real motive to try you...

What would you have us do? Play nobly but suicidally?

For example that... or just playing true to your count as innocents...

If we start trying to point out Wolves, do you think that they are really going to let us hang around for much longer?

You just said yesterDay that you had one or two of them at crosshairs... now you say you don't... Slacking are you, because of the comfort of your status or just bluffing for nothing (no wolf would have actually believed you with the threat; now why would they have as you should not have any more information anyone else of us has?)

I mean this looks awkward...


Mira!!! Nienna!!!

Please tell us if what these two said about their roles is true. I mean we are entitled to know the rules even if all is not told in the set-up roles section.

But really, I hardly think it unsporting for us to try play the hand of cards that we have been dealt as best we can.

I'm not denying it - and I think I said it already before. How come you didn't catch it?

If you are innocent, you should be out hunting Wolves rather than bemoaning perfectly valid strategies just because you don't agree with them.

I have been doing it the last hour and I will post soon to say what I think... sorry for the diversion.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Please tell us if what these two said about their roles is true. I mean we are entitled to know the rules even if all is not told in the set-up roles section.

Though you won't trust my word for it, I assure you we checked and double-checked everything prior to publicizing.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Though you won't trust my word for it, I assure you we checked and double-checked everything prior to publicizing.

Fea is indeed correct. Everything they've said about the rules is the truth.