WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Pitchwife]

Morsul - looks like's got a time problem, yet making an effort to contribute, even without the leisure to think everything through coolly. Looks rather innocent at this point. His vote for Mac seems rather based on a hunch than a solid case, but with time being an issue, that's understandable.

[Pitchwife]

I'll lump Lommy, Greenie, Brinn and Eomer together (probably Shasta too), as all of them have shown some activity but not quite enough for me to form a definitive impression. Seen nothing that stands out against any of them. I'd say Eomer makes a little more good points than the rest (to be expected from a veteran of the first hour, as I think he is).
Nerwen - well, I don't know. She's been more controversial than I remember her from other Day 1's. Usually she's more calm, cool, collected, very balanced and sensible to the point of inscrutability, especially early in the game, but I think I've seen her get pointed and - well, not quite passionate, but something in that direction - when the situation seemed to call for it. So, maybe a bit untypical, but 'sinister' is taking it too far, I think.

[Mnemosyne]

Pitch and Inziladun are both giving me the closest thing to a wolvish vibe that I have right now. I'll probably vote for one of them... whichever one seems more likely to garner more votes at this point as I'm afraid they'll be in competition with the Dread Fracas.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Pitch and Inziladun are both giving me the closest thing to a wolvish vibe that I have right now. I'll probably vote for one of them... whichever one seems more likely to garner more votes at this point as I'm afraid they'll be in competition with the Dread Fracas.

That's the third time you've made reference to your opinion that Roa and Nogrod are both innocent.

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, so the suspicionometers of everyone else on the thread were a lot less definitive than I thought...

And the vibes aren't giving me any more direction...

Which means it's coinflip time...

++Inziladun

[A Little Green]

An hour till DL... I'm off very soon, Lommy wants the internet, and I'm debating with myself whether to vote now or hastily before DL. It would make more sense now, I guess, but then again, I don't like decision-making, but then again, the decision has to be made anyway.

Gah. I'll vote now.

++ Mnemo

I'll save Nog for later. I want to hear him explain himself toMorrow.


EDIT: x-ed with Nog. Oh well.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

No. I'm saying nothing like that. I'm saying an ordo can use her/his grey cells and see. Being blind is not the same thing as being a baddie...

No, but by implying an ordo should see what you see is basically the same as implying that a person who doesn't see what you see is not an ordo. Get the point?

But now I'll go and let Lommy post. Decide wisely, folks. Good Night.

[Bes]

Back. Reading everything up til now. Also, waiting on Legate to answer a PMed question about rules and such... More in a little while, hopefully. I swear I'm trying to participate in this game.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

An hour till DL... I'm off very soon, Lommy wants the internet, and I'm debating with myself whether to vote now or hastily before DL. It would make more sense now, I guess, but then again, I don't like decision-making, but then again, the decision has to be made anyway.

Gah. I'll vote now.

++ Mnemo

I think Greenie may be gone now, but why Mnemo?
I don't care much for the latter's vote for me due to a coin toss, but some reasoning here would be helpful.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not going to vote due to lack of participation (one day stay of execution)

Loslote
Nienna
sally
Shasta
wilwa
tromkehra
Bes


Want to keep alive for now

Boromir88
Eomer of the Rohirrim (!)
Morsul
Nogrod
Roa
Green


Will probably vote for one of:

Inziladun
Mnemosyne
Pitchwife
Brinn
Macalaure
Thinlómien
Nerwen

[Pitchwife]

Zil - a quiet presence, hanging back and posting only when he's got something to say, which makes him look cautious and on his guard. Suspecting him is almost as easy and popular as Hakon-bashing. Sometimes he deserves it, sometimes not, hard to tell which. So far, however, I've seen nothing that cries wolf, and I don't quite see where Mnemo's vote comes from.
Mac has been playing in a somewhat similar style so far, which makes it hard to pin him down. But I find it noteworthy that he rescinded his early 'declaration of innocence' for me (for which, truth to be told, there was hardly any base at the time but maybe a vague instinct) very shortly after I pointed out his use of double standards.

Now for the Nog-Roa controversy. We've seen it all before, but this time, Nog looks odder of the two. Secret cobbler is a definitive possibility, but no more than that. Let's keep them both for another Day and see whether Nog comes up with something more substantial.

EDIT: x-ed with everyone since Mnemo's #130.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Mac has been playing in a somewhat similar style so far, which makes it hard to pin him down. But I find it noteworthy that he rescinded his early 'declaration of innocence' for me (for which, truth to be told, there was hardly any base at the time but maybe a vague instinct) very shortly after I pointed out his use of double standards.

Oddly enough, after apparently deciding not to go for me here:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Inzil - defense convincing; off hook for now; needs to say more

Mac then flip flops:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Since they're the only ones left, I'd tentatively consider Inzil (need to read more, so far mostly either agreed with others or defended himself), Nogrod (would deserve a long case, which I can't provide at the moment), Lommy (don't know what to do with her). Not happy with options.

And I still think he was entirely too quick to use the Boro controvery-which-shouldn't-have-been as a reason to cast suspicions.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ah Shasta, ever eager to play Eomer to my Lommy.

Wait, what?

[Bes]

Eugh. You guys post so very, very quickly. Admittedly there's close to 20 people in the game, so that's to be expected. Anyway!

I don't feel at all confident in my previous statement about Boro at this point; I was sleepy, it was 1AM, and even then it just me going with my gut... and later being sort of irritated at what I perceived as an inflammatory response.

I'm hesitant to peg either Roa or Nogrod, though they both feel suspicious to me, Nogrod more than Roa. He's speaking in a very firm and confident way about an argument that has about an ounce of evidence which is based on something that could just as easily be a coincidence. I don't want to say he's wrong, but I won't vote Roa today based on that either. He'll have to sell it to me more tomorrow.

I'll admit that I haven't considered everything as carefully as I could, but the arguments that make the most sense to me, right now, are Inzil's arguments against Mac. He's the only one so far that I can look back all the way and say that I feel iffy about, aside from the previously mentioned Roa and Nogrod.

++Macalaure

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Deadline. The Day is over.

Narration is coming up soon here also along with the Day's outcome. I will count and check the votes. In case you are around here and reading this and are not in desperate need to leave, I suggest that you patiently wait like five to ten minutes at most for the narration to be posted. And not do anything else. Yet.

[Pitchwife]

Just noticed - I was under the impression that Nog had voted Roa already, but according to Eomer's tally he hasn't, and I can't actually find a vote among his posts (would be quite uncharacteristic for him to vote early, anyway). Didn't want to create a false impression.
Has anybody considered Nog has a secret role which is not a cobbler?

[Thinlómien]

I'm here and I have read everything and I honestly just don't have anything to say. I seem to be a bit unable to get a grip on the game, undoubtedly partly because I haven't been dedicating it as much time as I could have, due to seeing friends etc.

While I agree that I would totally advocate the Roa-Nogrod-in-cahoots theory as a wolf if they were innocent, I still advocate it also as an innocent with no knowledge on their roles. Because normally if they were like that there would be at least one "oh don't we ever learn, we always do this" comment in the middle of that, but no. This time it seems staged because it's so dramatic. Neither party is questioning their reasoning at all, which is not a sign of innocence.

I'm not sure if I'll vote either of them, though, because funnily enough, that would seem quite drastic to me, especially as if ignoring the details, their petty fight seems so normal and thus not very suspicious at all. Argh. I guess I could vote Mnemo or Nienna, but they haven't really done much to merit my suspicion (but then again it's Day1). Or then I could vote Eomer because he would undoubtedly like that.


edit: xed with the stuff after the vote count

[Thinlómien]

Darn, Eomer's vote for Mnemo makes me hesitant to vote her, because that would turn the Mnemo-votes to a bandwagon and I'm not sure if she deserves that.

Also, I don't get why Nogrod seems so desperate. Usually he keeps calm even if the whole village suspects him and now it's only a minority.

Nienna comes back and suspects me. Wonderful. Because that makes me suspect her in return. I feel sort of "justified" in this suspicion though, because others have suspected me slightly too and I don't suspect them, so I'm not suspecting everybody in retaliation ergo my suspicion of Nienna can't be totally retaliatory which'd mean there's something that seems off to me in her behaviour even if I can't analyse it... Makes sense?


edit: xed with a host

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm here and I have read everything and I honestly just don't have anything to say. I seem to be a bit unable to get a grip on the game, undoubtedly partly because I haven't been dedicating it as much time as I could have, due to seeing friends etc.

Here's the post; # 151 if you want to look at the whole thing.

EDIT: xed with Mac

[Nerwen]

Back. Reading.

[wilwarin538]

My thoughts on the first 3 pages...

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Hasn't any of your degrees taught you anything?

Some people are masters at creating ideas and love leading out with those ideas. Others are also masters at creating ideas, but don't have the confidence to lead out with them. While others still are great at taking someone's created idea, and rolling with it, building on it, and making it better. Others still aren't the creative type, but take all what has been said and reach their own mind. And finally others would make perfect executioners, they carry out the all the orders and make things happen, otherwise there would just be a few washed-up preachers endlessly debating around in circles....look at the greeks.

I neither preach nor teach. I am what I am, and I know what I am. Someone's got to be.

This post makes no sense to me. Seems like a lot of talk for nothing. The last line is weird.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

As an ordo I know it. 'nuff said - meaning we're coming to the "uncomfortable zone" here and I'm not willing to argue anything as it's one of those things a player is not allowed to produce evidence for (which is actually just fair). Everyone can use their little grey cells though... and I suggest you all ordos do it and see it yourselves.

I completely understand what Nog is trying to say here (though some seem confused on what he's referring too), and so I get why he's so adament about his suspicion for Roa, but:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes, but people don't always pay close attention to things, especially if they don't have a role.

I have to agree with Nerwen here, it's not really enough to make me suspicious of Roa aswell. Though it is enough to make me confident in Nog.

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

(to Boro)
In my analysis, your right, I like to be thorough. But I scan admin threads, and I typically assume three wolves, because that's the typical number. What I don't like is how when I made my slip, you were all giggles. Now that someone has said, "Oh that's suspicious," you agree.

I agree with this.

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I am now convinced that the secret role is the cobbler, and Nogrod is it. He's clearly hinting at being the seer, which the seer Nogrod wouldn't do, because he knows better than to do something so risky. Further more, he can't be the seer, because he most certainly wouldn't attack me like this if he was. Make no mistake, this is a cobbler planning a false reveal.

I don't agree with this. I didn't for a second get any vibes that Nog was pretending to be the seer, I think this is because Roa doesn't understand what exactly Nog was trying to say, and because of that it's making me question her, but still not really enough yet for me to all out suspect her.

So after page 3 I currently sit at: Boro makes me uneasy, Nog I'm great with and Roa I'm iffy about.

Gonna keep reading and eventually catch up. And as a note: I really don't know what has happened after page three, I'm just doing this to better organise my thoughts, my opinions are probably going to change over my next few posts depending on what else happened. So hopefully this doesn't confuse people too much...

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

My thoughts on the first 3 pages...



This post makes no sense to me. Seems like a lot of talk for nothing. The last line is weird.



I completely understand what Nog is trying to say here (though some seem confused on what he's referring too), and so I get why he's so adament about his suspicion for Roa, but:



I have to agree with Nerwen here, it's not really enough to make me suspicious of Roa aswell. Though it is enough to make me confident in Nog.



I agree with this.



I don't agree with this. I didn't for a second get any vibes that Nog was pretending to be the seer, I think this is because Roa doesn't understand what exactly Nog was trying to say, and because of that it's making me question her, but still not really enough yet for me to all out suspect her.

So after page 3 I currently sit at: Boro makes me uneasy, Nog I'm great with and Roa I'm iffy about.

Gonna keep reading and eventually catch up. And as a note: I really don't know what has happened after page three, I'm just doing this to better organise my thoughts, my opinions are probably going to change over my next few posts depending on what else happened. So hopefully this doesn't confuse people too much...

Well since you haven't read past page three you wouldn't know this but Roa had to quit sadly... She was an ordo

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Yep, that was me, and for the reasons stated above. (The other lynchee was Zil, unsurprisingly.)

Good times, that.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean I thought Roa was jumping on you to make you look suspicious - and that looked like a targeted thing. But Mac tried to introduce a kind of general "interpretive net" from the basis of which anyone reacting (or not reacting) to you could be said being suspicious (which is not only baseless but also ridiculous).

That's what I meant about Mac. It looked as if he was leaving an opening to suspect any of those people he mentioned.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

You misunderstand me. I didn't mean that I had posted better stuff before, but that Inzil seemed to be doing the "looking helpful without being helpful" thing. (That's just what I thought then.)

I hate to further abuse a dead and gently rotting horse, but Mac, if your post wasn't 'better', how in blazes was mine more suspicious? How could the same not be said of you?

x/d with Lottie

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Plus, it took me much longer than I thought to go through wilwa's posts.

Oh, you are just so hilarious.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I have to announce that Roa unfortunately had to withdraw from the game (for RL reasons, she just cannot afford to play now). I can no longer put that into toDay's narration, but I will make her leave on the following Day. In any case, she won't be participating anymore toDay so you can leave her out also of your Wolf-hunting. For the record, she was an innocent ordinary member of the expedition.

I will put a short note of her role into the Night 2 summary, too, for easy referrence.

Oh, poor Nog, all that work. And I was actually starting to think her guilty.

On the phone with Glirdan for a bit, then will comment on this last page.

[Mnemosyne]

Inziladun...

First entered my radar with his second post (keep in mind that this is me analyzing my feelings for him after the fact). It just seemed odd: Everyone's been posting in character so far, except two, so what shall we do?

AHA! A SUMMARY!

This was made worse by the fact that he didn't say anything about the two people who were actually trying to post about the game itself (not that either one really said anything more than a restatement of the rules, something which I took issue with myself. At any rate it would have worked better to say something like that rather than "nothing of note".)

Next post he corrects Roa. I could see this going either way.

Next post deals with the small gifted discussion, in response to me. Concludes with "I see no reason why we should continue talking about it," but continues talking with Boro about it, two posts later. I prefer it when players suggest closing a certain discussion and then follow their own advice.

His next post, in response to Mac, looks like a legitimate rebuttal.

Next one defends self for continuing to discuss gifteds with Boro. Again, I can see his points here, since it was only one post. But that doesn't mean that he's off the hook for not following through on not talking about gifteds.

Next he weighs in on Nog's initial anti-Roa post, saying he's overreacting.

Asks Greenie why she voted me... (I suspect, for much the same reasons, sans coin, that I voted for him)

Begins fighting with Mac (at whom I also need to take a closer look). Finally votes him for sheer self-preservation.

So far today he's been continuing to talk about Mac...




I think I understand what was giving me vibes yesterday. Several of the posts he made, especially early on, seemed to be for sheer zeal of the game... that first summary, continuing on with Boro... even correcting Roa! That's the kind of exuberance I expect from two kinds of people: 1). wolves, and 2). me. The fact that he was in the most previous game pushes him more into the "wolf" camp, as I know that much of my own exuberance comes from the fact that I take long breaks in between games.

In short, I've been suspecting him because if he's not a wolf, then he's acting too much like me for my own liking. I don't trust people who act like me.

I'll have to look at Pitch and see if I get the same impressions from him.

The good news is that I do have a couple of Inzilwolf days on record, so that I can actually sit down and compare his behavior then to his behavior now, which should help me come up with something better. I'll have to look and see if we have any examples of gifted!Inzil.

And same with Pitch. I've seen him as a gifted, but I haven't read any game in which he's turned out a wolf.

[Mnemosyne]

Nog, since you've stated your criticisms twice about me I feel justified in responding:

yesterDay I was aware that both Inzil and Pitch were vaguely under suspicion by a number of people. When I went back and read through, though, the impressions that I was getting from everyone else were pretty well-balanced, i.e., no one seemed to be more suspected than the other (toDay, however, Pitch seems to have pulled ahead, probably due to his "bandwaggonish" vote yesterday). I had no time left before my next class and simply got to my "screw it" point and flipped a coin. Make of that what you will.

As for my not suspecting people loudly enough, call it my writer's instincts. I naturally tend to trust people and see things from as many sides as possible. The reason I lurked on Werewolf games so long and was able to continue enjoying myself is that I couldn't ever tell who anyone was (I was very proud of myself when I first realized, on the very last day of the game, that Sauce was a wolf... This was the first time I had ever identified anyone). Even when I analyze people, it tends to be what this says about me and not what it says about the player, because I actually know myself and how I think!

Go ahead and suspect me because of my vote yesterDay. I completely deserve that, because I should have taken a few deep breaths and thought things over some more. But finding me suspicious because of who I am as a reader of the gamethread and as a player makes me just a tad bit sad.

No different than automatically suspecting loudmouths or quiet people, though, I suppose.