WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Macalaure]

I like Bes' analysis, except that it draws a lot on my inconsistencies. Don't forget that ordos, lacking any special knowledge, end up being inconsistent a lot, too.

I think I defended myself against pretty much all of his points already. New ones are that I was calling the votes against me a bandwaggon too early (but there were only a few minutes to go, and with Inzil's expectable one, I was in the lead - definitely enough reason to be concerned, I think), and my suspicion of Nienna (which really isn't strong at all, but her vote tried to save me, and sometimes wolves like to save people they know are innocent because it often earns their trust, and if the saving fails, trying to save a dead known innocent tends to look good).

Sorry, Trom. All that gender confusion in this game...

I still have to verify my own suspicion of Pitch, but the way the suspicion against him is raised by several people lately makes me very uncomfortable.

I might be hurting myself now, but Boro: wolf-Mac would be very comfortable to keep you alive at this point, enjoying that he has fooled you this far and that you're sometimes hesitant to change your opinions once you've properly formed them.

I was starting to wonder whether Lommy could be evil, but now her suspicions are almost the same as mine, which makes it difficult... unless my suspicions are completely off.

[Macalaure]

Oh, there's this, too:

Originally Posted by Bes

I'd say that's half accurate, since it's more like he never suspects too many people in one sitting.

But honestly, how often does anybody suspect a larger number of people at the same time and in one post? That would be running loose.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

YAY I'M A WOLF.

Now there's a line you wouldn't want someone to quote out of context.

On a more serious note, I'm still not liking Mnemo, and the explanation she gives at #270 does't seem to explain very much:

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Tacking this on: Nerwen, Pitch was joking with people who were playing straight through the game, rationally, as if the confines of the game were still present. Nothing wrong with that, except maybe that it added to that dreadful zeal. But if later on he praises them for playing straight through the game, when at the time he himself was extending the banter... I'd just rather he'd put his money where his mouth was.

Yeah, that would be perfectly good argument... except that we are talking about a couple of banter posts in the middle of page one!

I don't particularly care for this, either:

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

...Is it bad that I almost want to get lynched just so that people will know I'm innocent?

I don't know what to think. Yesterday she seemed fine, and in fact I was very surprised when she became a lynch-candidate. ToDay she's apparently gone off the rails. Understand, I'm not saying Inzil and Pitch aren't wolves– Zil is reminding me of his lupine self from time to time, and I don't believe we know what a Pitchwolf looks like at all– but her stated reasons for suspecting them are terribly weak.

On the subject of weak reasons... well, pretty much everything I could say about Loslote's "list + vote" post has already been said, I think. Why did she do that? She'd actually have got much less attention if she'd said she was voting on "gut-feeling".

EDIT:X'd with Morsul.
EDIT2:typo.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Boro, re: me

I have (in my opinion) a very nifty "tell" that she will never be able to pry from my cold-dead hands as it's the only thing so far I've been pick up what her role is...

Oh really? Somehow I think my tell is not the tell you think it is. And if you're planning to lynch me just to find out that I'm a goodie I don't think I like your reasoning. I'd personally rather save people that are probably innocent in my eyes than lynch them just to see what they are. Or maybe I'm crazy and that's how the New Werewolf is played. Heck if I know. (Of course I'm mostly teasing here because I don't expect him to campaign to kill me at this stage, but if he does make up a big case against me later with little cause I'll be quite concerned.)

(Also, I should note that he had a tongue face at the end of that, but I had to remove it to be able to submit the post.)

Originally Posted by Kehra

Mac I be a girl

Goodie. I thought so, but wasn't sure. You can never tell on these here interwebs. (And sometime I'll have to tell you about when I joined and a certain Miss Kath wanted to call me Stan)


Okay, to business. Sorry everyone, but I kept falling asleep last night so I gave up and went to bed. I'll be busy this morning (once they need me to actually go in, that is, as I've got some time right now) but the last couple hours of the Day will be blissfully empty so I'll be a bit more vocal, or at least I hope. I'll go finish (although I don't think I got that far) my Brinn and Nienna analysis, and then I'm going to have a look at either Shasta or Nerwen. Wonder if I've found a pack yet.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Brinn, yes, it was a bit of a stretch. However, it fit very nicely with the feelings I was having about your Nerwen-vote, so I added it anyway.

Well of course you would add it and I wouldn't expect anything less; after all, twisting words into 'slips' is something wolves enjoy doing.

Btw, I'm not exactly sure why my Nerwen vote looks bad. It's not the strongest reasoning, I admit, but I still think it was a valid one. And it's certainly better than no reason at all.

Once again, I really don't have the time I need to get a better grasp on players. I'll try to hold off my vote for now, though it will have to be sometime in the next four hours. Anyway, right now the closest thing I have to a vote is Loslote for her unreasoned vote. She even admitted she didn't have a reason to suspect Lommy. Summarising a post of her's does not make it look better if there's no actual opinion shared or conclusions made.

Originally Posted by Stan

(And sometime I'll have to tell you about when I joined and a certain Miss Kath wanted to call me Stan)

I think you should've gone by that name. It so much more fun to say, not to mention it's easier to rhyme (like Steve).

[satansaloser2005]

*eats Brinn with the rest of her breakfast*

[Inziladun]

I'm trying to peek in and keep up while dodging a pile of work.

I'm making a concious effort to divert my attention from Mac toDay, so who else looks worthy of note?

Boro is seeming too brash and sure of himself, giving off a odd vibe. I don't know I can call it a wolfish vibe just yet though. He's mostly made sense I guess, which by his own reasoning means he should be lynched, right?

Lottie's vote for Lommy is certainly unreasoned, and looks to be a perfectly safe vote for a wolf to make. However, I don't know that I want to vote for Lottie just on that.

Nog is a puzzle. He's not really sounding like the Nog I know from the past, yet I have a hard time finding fault with most of what he says. His zeal in pursuing Roa yesterDay was bizarre, and a departure from his usual Day 1 submarine-hunting activities.

Shasta I'm on the fence about. I need to look at him more closely.

Nerwen seems all right.

Greenie...Eh.. Not sure. I'd have to see more.

Brinn...No alarm bells really.

Sally: Nothing jumps out one way or the other.

Lommy looks ok right now.

Morsul: Again, nothing stands out.

Pitch is another one I have a hard time finding fault with. I have no idea how he would come off as a wolf, but he seems reasonable enough.

Eomer is one to watch. He's really done quite well with looking involved at just the right times, but I'm hard pressed to remember anything in particular he's said.

Mac: I'm deliberately leaving him be for now. All I'm saying is I don't plan to vote for him toDay.

Mnemo is worrisome. Her rationale for suspecting me is truly strange. Then there are statements like this:

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Which is why I've decided that I'm not going to vote to try to save people anymore, much less vote "politically." And I encourage others to follow suit.

What does that mean? How was voting for me on a coin toss doing either of those things? Am I missing something?

And this:

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Shasta: because suddenly guilt becomes relative.

Could you explain what you mean by that?
And she's been proclaiming innocence as well, which most innocents don't feel the need to do. The seeming rising tide against her concerns me somewhat, because I worry that it could be a wolfish plot to frame her. But she's surely given them a lot of ammunition if that's the case.

I've probably missed someone, but I'm out of time for the moment.

x/d with 2 Sallys, Morsul, and Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

This….this looks so weird to me. “Well, if we lynch the gifteds, that’s too bad; it’d be their fault.” Not necessarily. For instance *drags up old owies* when Shasta was a ranger and our dearest Boro was a wolf Shasta did nothing wrong; on the contrary, he did everything right, and he was still lynched for it because Boro was just darn clever and smooth (no offense, Shasta dear). And I’d honestly love an explanation for the last sentence. How can the ordos leave clues for the wolves on who the gifteds are? They don’t know who the gifteds are.

I'd imagine she was just meaning the usual reason people avoid talking about gifteds: it's always possible the ordos might spot something the wolves have missed.

Anyway. I will be voting in the next few minutes, for either Lottie or Mnemo, unless something really extraordinary happens in the meantime. I don't like voting this early, but I don't have a choice.

[satansaloser2005]

Also....

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I think you should've gone by that name. It so much more fun to say, not to mention it's easier to rhyme (like Steve).

I shall now prove you wrong. By the end of the Day (or so I hope) you shall have something proving how easy my name is to rhyme. So there.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

But honestly, how often does anybody suspect a larger number of people at the same time and in one post? That would be running loose.

THIS.

Awake and caught up. Looking forward to seeing people's reactions, posts, etc. as they start coming in for the Big Finish.

[Mnemosyne]

Speaking of "tell"s, Sally, are you a wolf?

(Feel free to answer that question or not, my dear)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Speaking of "tell"s, Sally, are you a wolf?

(Feel free to answer that question or not, my dear)

My dear little duckling, I am not in fact a wolf. Are you? (Not that your answer would tell us anything, but still. It's polite to keep the conversation going, avoid awkward silences and all that.)

[Mnemosyne]

...but but but...

I love awkward silences! Especially when the awkwardness is broken by a loud and beautiful explosion!

Anyway, thank you, my dear, and no, I am not a wolf.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

*loud and beautiful explosion*

On a more serious note.... ah, who am I kidding. This post was all about the explosion.

[Morsul the Dark]

KERSPLODY

Mnem: I wasn't going to do this...

But this is going to eat at my head if I don't say it.

Reasons Mnemo does not trust players who remind her of her

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than living or dying.

I am more interested in having fun in a Werewolf game than winning or losing.

I enjoy having fun through banter, compulsively stalking the thread, and sometimes posting for the sake of posting.

I enjoy playing like this.

However, because I still want to win, I would rather not have too many players with these priorities on my side.

Therefore, I do not trust players like this in general.

I know myself. It's easier to project myself and my weaknesses as a player onto other people.

And the fact that the "having fun" bit comes so strongly so early in the game means that if people remind me of me during those first few posts, it's going to be a lasting first impression. So if I think, even on a subconscious level, that some of the players are going to have similar priorities to mine, I'm going to think that they might play like me and so wonder how sound their judgment is on individual players.

Which is really strike 2, as strike 1 for giddy players is that there's another perfectly reasonable explanation: "I'm excited because I'm a WULF this time!" (This also plays itself out when people say things like, "I think X!wolf would be spending more time on the thread than innocent!X)

Anyway, there you have it. I'm posting this because earlier some people (okay, two, but I was pretty high up on the lists yesterDay) found the conclusions I drew from these arguments (without presenting the arguments, which was somewhat dumb) suspicious. All fine and well. Just make sure you're suspecting me for the right reasons.

I'm not going to say anything more on this topic.

Should I consider You suspicious as this is hoow you're acting and you admit it's suspicious?

and to bring up once again the odd vote from yesterday:

Oh and This bit today:

but then again...

Mnem: Anyway, thank you, my dear, and no, I am not a wolf.

That's a persuasive argument...

Oh and once again

KERSPLODY!

[Morsul the Dark]

Sally lurking in an alley....
She crawled up from the valley...
To see the vote Tally...
then went off the Wolf Rally...

I'm actually kind of suspicious of Shasta right now; call it a hunch. Roa seems too strange to me (and as usual, the first Day is rubbish and I'm only able to sparknotes how I think) and while Nog looks weird I trust him so far. Boro's clearly the devil.

*pulls out hair* See what I come back to?

I think the whole end of the Day was rotten, and I'll tell you why as soon as I finish up some laundry. I swear I'll save some time to do a proper post, but unfortunately RL is eating me up.

Also, where's the new kid? I've not seen him/her yet and won't rest properly until I give them a nickname. *pokes them* Sad day. Off to analysis then.

I'll go finish (although I don't think I got that far) my Brinn and Nienna analysis, and then I'm going to have a look at either Shasta or Nerwen. Wonder if I've found a pack yet.

and then post after post of nothing...

Putting off this "analysis because you already know the answer? And Mnem's logic would say she should suspect you... but she doesn't say that I wonder If I have found a pack...

[satansaloser2005]

Morsul, your vote of confidence is overwhelming. And on that note, I've finally finished Brinn. Sorry it's taken me so long; my brain doesn't like to turn on until at least noon. Heh.

Ugh, I just remembered how awful this deadline is for me. I'm only going to be around for a small window during the first half of the Day, unfortunately. So I'll do my best to participate now, though I'm afraid it's not much.

Nothing.

Nienna seemed to be the first to move away from the banter, which I appreciate. Right now I'm just too tired to process any long bantery posts, so let's just stay on-topic, okay?

I could say “oh, look, she doesn’t care what we say as long as it’s on topic” but I think this is just a busy Brinn who wants to not have to sludge through pages upon pages of IC posting. *shrugs*

On the subject of the gifteds, I agree we just leave it alone and not worry about accidentally lynching them. Our roles are our own responsibility and it's up to the gifted how they play. If we lynch them, it's not our fault; they are the ones to blame because it is by their own actions that makes them suspicious. And anyway, if we focus too much on who the gifteds may be and how to avoid them, we may end up leaving clues for the wolves, which could be quite dangerous if any of them are accurate.

This….this looks so weird to me. “Well, if we lynch the gifteds, that’s too bad; it’d be their fault.” Not necessarily. For instance *drags up old owies* when Shasta was a ranger and our dearest Boro was a wolf Shasta did nothing wrong; on the contrary, he did everything right, and he was still lynched for it because Boro was just darn clever and smooth (no offense, Shasta dear). And I’d honestly love an explanation for the last sentence. How can the ordos leave clues for the wolves on who the gifteds are? They don’t know who the gifteds are. I’m just sayin’ that it is the responsibility of the goodie team as a whole; we have to make a conscious effort not to kill off our gifteds. If it happens or someone mistakenly suspects one, that’s fine, because we all know it happens, but this rather carefree attitude of Brinn’s makes me suspicious of her motives.

Btw, I don't think Boro is saying let's lynch those who make sense and leave alone anyone who is acting suspicious. I think he's just trying to say we need to keep in mind that not everyone who is obviously suspicious is a wolf (and may even be possibly gifted) and not everyone who makes sense is innocent. So we can't make any assumptions based on that alone. Which I agree.

Defends Boro. And in fact they do have a point. Heck, I rarely make sense and I’m rarely a wolf; we do have to keep in mind differences in playing styles. But basically not a lot here, other than trying to (better?) explain Boro’s point of view.

How I hate Day Ones. Not that they're useless, but I always have trouble coming to any conclusions, especially this early in the Day. I don't think it'd be right for me to vote now since it'd have to be completely random and I'm not in the mood for randomness. So I may not vote at all toDay. There's a possibility I'll be able to pop in real quick and vote later toMorrow, but don't have any high expectations.

The thing I find strange about this is that when she does vote (a bit over two hours pre-DL) it looks to me as if she has to manufacture a reason. (More on this later.)

P.S. I also think we should keep in mind that the polar bears are an endangered species and we must work to save them. Because if we can't catch the wolves, the polar bears will totally do the job for us and eat them for breakfast.

Actually that was quite funny. Random, but funny. *grins*

Originally Posted by Brinniel

And I'm sure you'd call it equally safe if I were to randomly vote instead. But at that point of the Day when it's too early to have the slightest suspicion, what else am I supposed to do?

I'm pretty sure Nogrod is talking about my own decision not to vote because it was still too early in the Day, even if I might not return.

But anyway, I am back now, for a short time at least (my participation may be spotty since I am at work). And if I have enough time to look back at some things and see enough to form a suspicion, then I will vote before I leave again.

People have voted with less suspicion and been right before. (And I’m certainly not saying to do it, but it has happened. Anyway....) Not a lot in this other than that snark, so moving on.

I don't like the jump on Boro either. I personally found his message to make perfect sense, so I don't really know what the reactions are all about and for that reason, I would like to go back and take a look at those who did jump on him.

Defending Boro again, and apparently people who find him suspicious are possibly guilty. I’ll have to look into this more, but I may see a hint of a wolf connection. Dunno.

Also, I think voting for someone based only on what you think is a 'slip' is rather ridiculous. If you think that way, then fine. But have some evidence to further back up that suspicion before making the vote.

Yes, but if people do make slips we can’t just let them get away with it. Double standard.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

That already happened last game. Back then it was quite fun since I was teamed with them, but if they are in cahoots together yet again, just kill me now.

Btw, I'm voting shortly since I'm done with work soon and I'm tired of looking over my shoulder in fear of getting yelled at by my boss..

Heh. Fair enough. And nothing in here much.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I almost forgot to vote! I'm a bit rushed since I have to run to class, but here we go..

The two people who stuck in my mind as suspicious are Nogrod and Nerwen. Nogrod's certainty over Roa's guilt seems a bit odd; why so confident on Day One? Whoever mentioned that his behaviour seems cobblerish, I agree. The problem is we don't even know whether we have a cobbler or not. As for Nerwen, she was very quick to jump on Roa's attack on Boro earlier; a very bandwaggonish move, which I find suspicious. So...

++Nerwen


Of course it's always possible...and it'd be almost funny if it did happen again. Anyway it seems quite typical for Nogrod and Roa to butt heads; though that does not necessarily point toward innocence or guilt.

This also strikes me as suspicious (see above). Of course we have Shasta’s take on her cobbler mention (which is possible but I’m not betting my RSC Hamlet poster on it) but she seems very uncertain. All of us are on Day One, so that’s all right, but she goes for Nerwen (“um, she looks bandwaggonish”) instead of Nog (“he looks like a cobbler, but we might not have a cobbler”….in my mind that would only leave one option, which is that no matter what he’s evil) and then at the end notes that she does think Nog could be innocent. It’s nearly an afterthought to me, as if Brinn thought to herself “Oh, that won’t look good, so I better throw in that I think the whole Roa/Nog controversy could be ordo-only. There, much better.” I just don’t like it.

(Although for the record I do like her vote for Nerwen itself, as I think she’s a bit shady too.)

Originally Posted by Brinniel

So Roa dropped? What a shame; I was hoping to see more of the Nog & Roa show. But really, before I knew she dropped, I was starting to think it perhaps more likely that those two really were just two innocents at each other's throats. Nogrod can be a bold wolf, so I won't eliminate the possibility, but still it is rather risky to be going at it with an innocent with such force as early as Day One. If they are both innocent, the Roa vs. Nogrod was a great distraction for the wolves. With the events of yesterDay, our baddies could easily set him up for the next lynch target I think, which is why I would be rather uncomfortable to vote for him toDay.

Like I said before, basically backing off Nog completely now. More backpedalling? *scratches head* Of course it’s possible she just legitimately changed her mind, but I want to keep a close eye on it just in case as it looks like….well, I don’t know what.

Okay, now that really is a stretch. When I said "whether we have a cobbler," I meant "we" as in "the village." I really can't see what was wrong with what I said or why you'd consider it a 'slip.'

I don't exactly understand Loslote's vote for Lommy. She summarises a post of her's, yet fails to provide any of her own commentary.

She does have a fair point here about Shasta stretching, but her original post did look a bit odd. I’m chalking it up partly to tired/busy Brinn and partly to potential sneaky evil. Also, fair point on Little Lottie’s vote; I need to check into her and see what song she sings in the Night.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Well of course you would add it and I wouldn't expect anything less; after all, twisting words into 'slips' is something wolves enjoy doing.

Btw, I'm not exactly sure why my Nerwen vote looks bad. It's not the strongest reasoning, I admit, but I still think it was a valid one. And it's certainly better than no reason at all.

Once again, I really don't have the time I need to get a better grasp on players. I'll try to hold off my vote for now, though it will have to be sometime in the next four hours. Anyway, right now the closest thing I have to a vote is Loslote for her unreasoned vote. She even admitted she didn't have a reason to suspect Lommy. Summarising a post of her's does not make it look better if there's no actual opinion shared or conclusions made.

I think you should've gone by that name. It so much more fun to say, not to mention it's easier to rhyme (like Steve).

Again, holds fair points, but the Nerwen vote looks off for specifically the reasons I stated above. Another good point about Lottie and then she just attacks me. *sobs bitterly*

All in all Brinn seems really busy but as we know we can’t let that keep us from suspecting her. I’m not going to push for a Brinn lynch toDay but I would go along with it if it came up because I think she’s a rather good suspect, busy or no. Sorry muffin.



Sorry, I've got to go into work. I'll be back when I can and will look over Nienna and others. Also, if there's any errors/ommissions in this post feel free to let me know, as I didn't have a chance to check it properly and I don't want to wait to post it. Until I return!



ETA: Just in case you don't realize, all quotes are by Brinn. *toddles*

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

and then post after post of nothing...

Putting off this "analysis because you already know the answer? And Mnem's logic would say she should suspect you... but she doesn't say that I wonder If I have found a pack...

Or Sally has hacked into Mnemo's account and is busy having a conversation with herself.

Seriously– Mnemo has seemed quite unlike herself toDay, and I was just thinking, "Now who does she remind me of... oh, I know... SALLY!"

EDIT:X'd with Sally (or possibly Mnemosally).