WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Nogrod]

Okay, sorry I got distracted and I have an early morning call tomorrow... so this is nothing near to what I thought I would do. So only a few points from yesterDay

Boro you make quite a show of your "reasoning" and "facts", but looking at things toDay and comaparing it to your vote on Wilwa makes one think again.

Originally Posted by Boro

I'm willing to stand by that vote and bet she's a wolf. If not, than I'll accept the consequences. I'm just asking you trust the info, and me, above crap-shoot shot in the dark misgivings about being fooled.

So what might be the manner of your "accepting the consequences"?

Also you seem to really press hard on it... this is your post quite soon after the previous I quoted:

Originally Posted by Boro

If we are wrong, at least we made a logical and wise lynch based on sound reasons which have less of a chance of turning out to be a crippling lynch than deciding we drop the suspicion on them and go for conspiracy theories about someone double or triple bluffing.

Securing your back already then?

Well Boro could go either way (what I pointed out was little and things I suspected him on on the basis of D1 were mainly depending on the assumption that Mac was a wolf). I need to look at him more carefully later though just to be a bit safer with him - or actually suspect him.


Lommy, you go seriously to and fro with Wilwa with first just saying she gives "wolvish vibes" enough to make her your top candidate (which is actually quite odd looking at her first post you point at... I mean she speaks sense there, like it or not; and you say yourself that: "more so on the first than on the second reading, though.") - and when it starts to look she is going to bite the dust you start back-pedalling with your "alternative theory"... even if I have to admit it being an ingenious move to showcase a choice between a top suspect and a top-theory!

But then you go on twisting perfectly checkable facts to back your "theory" and start fishing Mac's help with the lynch of another fish.

Btw. Lommy: you say "I can't really find the vote count for Day2 right now, so Nogrod, let's postpone this debate for toMorrow". In what order people de facto voted is no case for a debate... but a fact easily checkable.

I hate it when people try to mislead others with fiction to get people lynched or suspected at last minutes. And it's hard to see an innocent intention behind that kind of moves. If you were innocent you wouldn't have acted that way as you would have been worried about actually having it wrong and thus helping an innocent to die / be painted black.

It actually fits quite well that you raised this "concern" in the last hour of the Day buddying with Mac and then killed him the next Night...


And in every sense I must say that your last post looks much more worse than Wilwa's first yesterDay. I mean what did it consist of?

- You were not surprised (you learned: last time you played surprised and people suspected you for it)

- Mac was innocent and "made clear" he was ready to vote wilwa to save you as he realised you were innocent!!! (so everyone else should follow his lead and trust you as he did so)

- Probably not the gifted-connection (well not as he was no gifted), but another point how sure he (an innocent) was of your innocence - and how you we're afraid as being looked as a gifted by the wolves... (without your own liking - or effort to be looked like that by us?)

- Your judgement is good indeeed in this game as you backed the right horse that Day. Although you of course felt crappy when wilwa died... (here your double-act works: you can both push wilwa to death and still reserve youurself a right to show a face of "I told I had better ideas")

- I will just get heated up if you continue your speculation of me being a wolf... (a nice 100% proof defence. If I suspect you, you can just say I'm "heated"... right?)

Quite nice Lommy... but so fabricated and calculated (how can you fit that many messages into one post? *bows*) that it actually makes me consider you as my suspect number one right now.

And I'm quite cool with it.

Now good night....

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod, Nogrod, Nogrod... this will be a full-blown war, I assure you, because to me your latest post just screams wolvery. I was waiting to see who would jump on my theory about Mac getting killed first, and you have incriminated yourself by jumping on that. A seasoned player like yourself, you wouldn't have jumped on it like that if you were innocent and really thinking about it. (Not suggesting that my theory is so right you should believe it, but merely that suggesting a hypothesis that assumes my own innocence doesn't make me a wolf and that knowing me, as a wolf under serious scrutiny, I wouldn't definitely say anything like that, but that's a side issue. You can't know that because you're not me, so you have no "duty" to believe it.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Lommy, you go seriously to and fro with Wilwa with first just saying she gives "wolvish vibes" enough to make her your top candidate (which is actually quite odd looking at her first post you point at... I mean she speaks sense there, like it or not; and you say yourself that: "more so on the first than on the second reading, though.") - and when it starts to look she is going to bite the dust you start back-pedalling with your "alternative theory"... even if I have to admit it being an ingenious move to showcase a choice between a top suspect and a top-theory!

Rubbish. (Ha, Roa you should be proud of me. ) Of course I was wavering. Every sensible innocent is wavering with their suspicions unless they have divine inspiration. I didn't claim Wilwa didn't make sense, I just said I got wolvish vibes. You question me because I went more with my first impression than with the second - what's the problem with that? Second impression is no gut-feeling anymore.

As for back-pedaling and alternative theory, I had been thinking of that alternative theory the whole Day, to be honest, but didn't say it aloud. Why? There is, to me, an obvious connection between you and Sally. You co-operate. She spends a whole post discussing points for and against your innocence. This could point at two things and that was why I was wondering whether to bring it up at all or not: I suspected the two of you, but I didn't want to risk the chance you were our gifted.

So, maybe stupidly, I settled on this vague "theory" thing after much debate and posted it. The time I posted it had nothing to do with what other people were saying but with when I had time to think about it. Why am I saying this aloud now? Because it seems obvious to me that you two can't be our gifted because you are a wolf. There, feeling better?

PS. You have absolutely no right to claim the moral highground about the Wilwa lynch, btw. I was at least forced to vote her to save my life, unlike you. (Not that there would've been no chance for me to vote her otherwise, but I was pondering between her and Brinn before Bes came and made my decision for me.)

But then you go on twisting perfectly checkable facts to back your "theory" and start fishing Mac's help with the lynch of another fish.

Twisting checkable facts? Me? It's you who's doing that. I did not start the Brinn-thingy, it was either Mac or Sally, I joined it. If I was a wolf, why wouldn't I just have sticked with Wilwa and make sure my life is saved? I would've had believeable grounds for doing that taking into account all my expressed suspicion of her earlier.

And as for the vote count, I was not twisting any facts or accusing you of such. *stomps feet* How many times in this game do I have to say that if you ask me WOLVES DO NOT TWIST FACTS INTENTIONALLY because that's plain stupid! They may make mistakes, just as us others.

Btw. Lommy: you say "I can't really find the vote count for Day2 right now, so Nogrod, let's postpone this debate for toMorrow". In what order people de facto voted is no case for a debate... but a fact easily checkable.

Now you're again misunderstanding me badly, either intentionally or unintentionally. I was merely saying I'm not talking with you about the actual issue until I have my facts right. I thought I had my facts right. You had them differently. I was not sure which one of us is right so I wanted to check before discussing further. Is this wolvish in your opinion? Last time I looked, misremembering wasn't a crime.

I hate it when people try to mislead others with fiction to get people lynched or suspected at last minutes. And it's hard to see an innocent intention behind that kind of moves. If you were innocent you wouldn't have acted that way as you would have been worried about actually having it wrong and thus helping an innocent to die / be painted black.

What? You could've been lynched? Guess what? Only a wolf can be that paranoid. There was absolutely no chance of you getting lynched yesterDay, that should've been clear. Your point is very weak anyway: what bad is it for an innocent to be merely suspected in the last minutes? If something, it's good because it helps you survive until the next Day. (You should be grateful. ) And I was actually worried my facts were wrong, just go and see.

It actually fits quite well that you raised this "concern" in the last hour of the Day buddying with Mac and then killed him the next Night...

I didn't kill him. I might be smart enough to have something like that, but I don't think I'm ruthless enough.

And in every sense I must say that your last post looks much more worse than Wilwa's first yesterDay. I mean what did it consist of?

And here poor Wolfgrod falls into the trap of making a mountain out of a molehill... here we go...

- You were not surprised (you learned: last time you played surprised and people suspected you for it)

Hey please, that is ridiculous. If I had thought there was something wrong with my surprise yesterDay and wanted to act less suspiciously, I would not have commented on the predictability of the death at all toDay.

- Mac was innocent and "made clear" he was ready to vote wilwa to save you as he realised you were innocent!!! (so everyone else should follow his lead and trust you as he did so)

Well that is true, go and see! I'm not claiming everybody should follow his lead and trust me. You all have to make up your own mind. If you need to follow someone's lead on me, follow my own. I have the best knowledge of my role in this village. But it would be just as stupid for you to blindly follow my opinion of myself as Mac's opinion on me.

- Probably not the gifted-connection (well not as he was no gifted), but another point how sure he (an innocent) was of your innocence - and how you we're afraid as being looked as a gifted by the wolves... (without your own liking - or effort to be looked like that by us?)

...what? I was not afraid to be looked as a gifted by the wolves. If me shouting "I'm the ranger I'm the ranger" would make the wolves go for me instead of him/her, I would do that. Usually as an ordo I'm not trying to set myself up as a gifted for the simple reason that I'm selfish and don't want to die, but I don't definitely fear looking gifted because I know I'm less valuable than a real gifted. And I have no intention of misleading the innocent to think I'm gifted, because I have no reason for that (at least now, not toDay in this game).

- Your judgement is good indeeed in this game as you backed the right horse that Day. Although you of course felt crappy when wilwa died... (here your double-act works: you can both push wilwa to death and still reserve youurself a right to show a face of "I told I had better ideas")

I didn't say I had better ideas! I had other ideas, not better ideas. This point seems to me that you're just trying to make everything I do look suspicious, there's no point in this point. "You have good judgement ergo you're a wolf." Thanks a lot.

- I will just get heated up if you continue your speculation of me being a wolf... (a nice 100% proof defence. If I suspect you, you can just say I'm "heated"... right?)

No, dear, I won't say you're heated... I say you are a wolf who has decided to get me lynched toDay. Nice. And I made that comment because I didn't like the way you started going berserk when I disagreed with your facts. So you can take it as a mild sarcastic offense at your direction... and although I promised not to say that, what is this reply to that if not heated? *insert a mischevious smiley here*

Quite nice Lommy... but so fabricated and calculated (how can you fit that many messages into one post? *bows*) that it actually makes me consider you as my suspect number one right now.

Oh that is exactly the kind of statement that makes me want to hit the person who said that with something heavy and makes me write a defense smoke rising from my keyboard. *takes a deep relaxing breath* Thank you, but save your compliments for someone who deserves them. Like, next time you see a mirror, that might be a good line.

Okay and now I'm either off to sleep or write an RPG post but I feel like a pause from ww would do good... *still has smoke rising from keyboard and ears*