Do Hobbits get Lung Cancer?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mugwump

The cancer risk from pipe smoking is much less than for cigarettes, perhaps because the smoke is generally not inhaled. In America, with a population of over 300 million, there are an estimated 1000 or so cancer deaths (all kinds, not just lung cancer) per year. That's about one death per 300,000 people. Although it's not politically correct to say so, perhaps pipe smoking just isn't all that dangerous.

Where did you get that statistic of 1000 estimated deaths per year in the US, Mugwump?

The stats given by the American Cancer Society for 2008 read 565,650 deaths from all cancers.

And the cancer risk for pipe smoking includes oral cancers, not just lung cancer.

Formendacil, I can see the start of a new controversy: would Balrog cigarettes have filters or not?

[Mugwump]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Where did you get that statistic of 1000 estimated deaths per year in the US, Mugwump?

The stats given by the American Cancer Society for 2008 read 565,650 deaths from all cancers.

And the cancer risk for pipe smoking includes oral cancers, not just lung cancer.

Sorry, I didn't finish the sentence correctly:

In America, with a population of over 300 million, there are an estimated 1000 or so cancer deaths (all kinds, not just lung cancer) per year among pipe smokers.

That statistic is from a 1996 study published in the journal Preventive Medicine, which estimated that the number of deaths in the United States attributable to pipe smoking in 1991 ranged from 650 to 2,820, the majority from lung cancer, but that number included all types of cancers the pipe smokers died from. The middle estimate was a little more than 1,000 deaths.

By the way, I once tried smoking a pipe. It make my throat so raw and painfull I never tried again.

[skip spence]

Tolkien, as an avid pipe-smoker, thought of the habit as a pleasurable pastime, not as a repulsive and immoral means of slowly killing yourself while making everyone in the close proximity suffer horribly too. Apparently and not coincidently Hobbits did likewise.

Did they die from lung cancer at times? Considering that their pipe-weed was indeed tobacco, or something very much like it, and that Hobbits biologically are just little people, well, some of them probably did. They wouldn't be aware that is was cancer they died from though, why they had contracted it, or indeed what cancer was in the first place, so they had no reason to worry.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Mind you, lung cancer was a great medical rarity until the widespread smoking of cigarettes arose ca. WWI.

a repulsive and immoral means of slowly killing yourself while making everyone in the close proximity suffer horribly too

Not opinionated, are we?

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Not opinionated, are we?

Well, on a side note, I've always been intrigued by how the smell of tobacco can be so terribly offensive to some people. I mean, heavy indoor smoking is one thing, but nowadays a mere whiff of tobacco smoke seem to be able to provoke the most astonishing reactions, as if that certain odour violates our most basic human rights, or as if deadly cysts would instantaneously start to popping up on people all around that horrible smoker.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

To the point that many places are banning smoking outdoors!

But I digress...

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Well, on a side note, I've always been intrigued by how the smell of tobacco can be so terribly offensive to some people. I mean, heavy indoor smoking is one thing, but nowadays a mere whiff of tobacco smoke seem to be able to provoke the most astonishing reactions, as if that certain odour violates our most basic human rights, or as if deadly cysts would instantaneously start to popping up on people all around that horrible smoker.

I do not think it is the odor that some find offensive, but the idea that others are freely and needlessly polluting the air that we all have to breathe.

There are laws against public nudity, but there is no actual danger to a person who sees even the ugliest naked body. It is thoroughly socially unacceptable to pass gas where others will be forced to inhale it, yet, again, doing so would cause no actual harm to anyone. Cursing where all around you are forced to hear it is very inconsiderate, and is even a misdemeanor in some places, if I am not mistaken.

I enjoy the smell of nearly all tobacco products, personally, and I tend to share your attitude about the danger of casually inhaling second-hand smoke. The fact, however, is that it is inconsiderate of others to pollute their bodies against their will, and is more offensive than those things I mentioned above because of the actual damage that is caused, negligible or otherwise. Most importantly, children must be considered. The dangers of second-hand smoke appear to be real, inasmuch as one can trust the studies that have been conducted. Surely you do not condone forcing even the risk of these negative effects on children.

[Andsigil]

When I first saw this thread, the first thing I imagined were hobbits like Lotho Sackville-Baggins forming a "Health and Safety" (or "Elfin-Safety") Commission to dictate to the other hobbits how they should behave.

That, of course, would lead to other forms of control, in other areas of behavior, over which the Lothos of the world would love to have jurisdiction. Kind of like now. And, like today, we'd see places like the Shire turn into nanny states.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by obloquy

Surely you do not condone forcing even the risk of these negative effects on children.

"Think of the children!", exclaims the moralistic Helen Lovejoy.

I actually think the concept that all risks should be minimized at the cost of personal liberty is one of the most frightening ideas to come out of modern civilisation.

I'm quite sure Tolkien would've agreed with that too, as Andsigil implied.

Now as I said, heavy smoking in poorly ventilated indoor areas is one thing - the detrimental health-effects of tobacco smoke is well documented, whether is is inhaled first or second hand, and unwilling people shouldn't be forced to breath in excessive amounts of it, no. But it has gone way beyond that now, hasn't it? A few stray molecules of incensed tobacco isn't a reasonable danger to anyone's health, children or no.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Tolkien, as an avid pipe-smoker, thought of the habit as a pleasurable pastime, not as a repulsive and immoral means of slowly killing yourself while making everyone in the close proximity suffer horribly too. Apparently and not coincidently Hobbits did likewise.

.

Of course he wouldn't think like that - the evidence about the links to smoking and cancer were only starting to emerge in the fifties when the books were out and it wasn't until the late sixties that television advertising was banned in the UK. By which time he may have felt it too late to worry. When Tolkien was a young man tobacco was advertised as having health benefits!

Many many people did smoke in those days so it wasn't really antisocial. I seem to recall that one of the benefits of the Tolkien's house in Branksome was it's veranda where they would smoke companionably of an evening.

My mother gave up smoking around the time Tolkien died and although she happened to be pregnant at the time her reasons were financial rather than medical.

[Airaloske]

modern cigarettes contain so much other disgusting material. is it the tobacco itself that causes the cancer or is the extra fun mix-ins that do the job?

i'm sure tobacco smoke is anything but healthful, but it can't be -as- bad as modern commercial cigarettes.

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

It had also occured to me that the Hobbits smoked their pipeweed in pipes. They weren't smoking modern processed cigarettes.

As well as considering the health risks associated with smoking - we should also ask about the Hobbits' eating habits. They all seem to eat far too much. Do Hobbits get Heart Disease?

While we're at it; the Hobbits don't seem to have have flush toilets or other sewage disposal systems. Do Hobbits tend to die in large numbers from infectious diseases like Typhus, Cholera etc? At least they seem to bathe regularly...

We can play this game all day!

[Airaloske]

do hobbits get hookworm from running around barefoot all the time :P

[Selmo]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

It had also occured to me that the Hobbits smoked their pipeweed in pipes. They weren't smoking modern processed cigarettes.

As well as considering the health risks associated with smoking - we should also ask about the Hobbits' eating habits. They all seem to eat far too much. Do Hobbits get Heart Disease?

While we're at it; the Hobbits don't seem to have have flush toilets or other sewage disposal systems. Do Hobbits tend to die in large numbers from infectious diseases like Typhus, Cholera etc? At least they seem to bathe regularly...

-

Smoking:
It's a myth that many dangerous chemicals are added to modern cigarettes. There are more than enough products of burning natural tobacco to account for all the health problems.
Hobbits may have avoided some of the problems of smoking because of the ammount they smoked. We know that Bilbo had a habit of smoking a pipe after breakfast, outdoors if the weather was fine, and another in the evening if he guests like Gandalf to share his tobacco with. If that was all he smoked, the risk to his health would be small.
During the walk from Bagend to Buckland, Sam comments, "An apple fpr walking and a pipe for sitting." Hobbits, it seems, didn't smoke while they were working; more evidence to suggest they smoked far less than the equivalent of twenty cigarettes a day.

Eating:
Tolkien said that Hobbits enjoyed extra meals when they could get them.
I think that in a pre-mechanised agricultural society, when they could get them would not be very often. A poor harvest could mean starvation. A bad year when Bilbo was a child caused very many deaths.

Diseases:
Hobbits were subject to infectious diseases. They were almost wiped out by a plague soon after they has settled in The Shire.

.