Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ah, poor Javan. It's hard to realize the point of learning discipline until you've learned it.

[Groin Redbeard]

Wow, the trial turned out different than I imagined it. Where was Aedre? Where were the witnesses? One man jury and prosecutor and the accused is also the defendant. It was more of a show, it was already clear that Javan was going to be guilty all that needed to be found out was what on. Should not Aedre also share in a punishment for not behaving lady like? In this case I find Athanar's iron fisted rule to be anything but compassionate or fair.

I do not find humiliation in-front of the entire hall to be a better punishment than a good swat and the bottom. The verdict was a clever and just one, but I think since the offense was private, Thornden, Wynflaed, and Athanar should have done it in private and not make a "trial" out of it.

Love the writing, but disagree with the outcome. Now you know where I am coming from.

[Folwren]

The offence wasn't private, and nor was there any question about who did it. They weren't concerned with why he did, only that he shouldn't have done it. So, I think that they didn't need witnesses.

You're right - we forgot Aedre altogether. Oh well.

As for the outcome, it came as much as surprise to me as it did to everyone else. I liked the decision. I don't think it was very humiliating. I think the fact the was tried by the eorl because he hit the eorl's daughter was fitting.

I agree, though, that Aedre does deserve some form of punisment.

Thanks for posting Groin...even if I did write back to refute all your arguments, I still liked hearing your opinion. I just wanted to try to explain things, not so much as argue things.

-- Foley

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Folwren

As for the outcome, it came as much as surprise to me as it did to everyone else. I liked the decision. I don't think it was very humiliating. I think the fact the was tried by the eorl because he hit the eorl's daughter was fitting.

I'm thinking of a Benjamin Franklin saying when I mentioned humiliation: "It is perfectly acceptable to humiliate people in private, they might even thank you for it later. However, when you do it in public they tend to think you are serious." Love Mr. BF.

Originally Posted by Foley

Thanks for posting Groin...even if I did write back to refute all your arguments, I still liked hearing your opinion. I just wanted to try to explain things, not so much as argue things.

You have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

Nogrod, you ready to post Lithor's trial next?

[Folwren]

Indeed, Groin, that is why you should never give me absolute power in a character because I would soooo take advantage of that proverb...if it can be called a proverb. My power-holding character would be so corrupted.

[Nogrod]

Groin: good to see you posting but I have a few questions for you...

The next one is from the thread and I think there is something quite odd there. Now who's talking / thinking and where - I mean the underlined part?

However, the trial was not a total shamble. Quartermaster was not a bad job for an elderly soldier to have and Lithor was content with it. Thornden had been spared and for the most part Athanar’s sons had been spared, apart from being assigned job and a momentary scolding. Balvir and Matrim immediately came to join Lithor and offer their condolences. Let us be thankful, the misunderstanding was not worse. Quartermaster is not such a bad job really. At least the younger newcomers will not have to answer to him. Balvir, you are now my superior. Was it fair? It did not matter. Few things in this life are.
“Quit whining and accept it.” Lithor said his eyes fixed on Wulfric and Wulheard, lost in thought. “The one constellation is that I will be able to keep an eye on his sons.”

Secondly I'd think that Balvir (48y.), a sergeant of Gondor, would understand where lord Athanar is coming from and act accordingly - even if he wishes to be nice with / is a friend of Lithor.

Thirdly; have you thought of those peasants you wrote in a few days ago? I think there are no such figures around and the few comments here have confirmed it. It's always nasty to ask someone to remove something from the story but sorry, there are no such peasants around - and no outside camp-fires etc.


On a general note: I'm happy in general to see people have adopted new NPC's / side-characters from the ranks of the newcomers. That's good and something I'd warmly recommend to anyone.

But it seems you have only picked up some jerks and idiots... Looking at Groin's last post about those non-existent peasants brings the vision of PJ in the movie of the Prancing Pony to mind, like all Breelanders were baddies or half-wits...

Now lord Athanar, if he had peasants following him (which he doesn't), would have kicked that kind of guys off a long time ago. In that kind of society a lord is the one who has the chance to choose and will mercilessly leave the dim-wits or aggressors to suffer on their own and only bear with good people.

I can understand Athanar has some problematic characters around for the sake of storyline interests, like Aforglaed; he could be a son of a fellow lord or something, or a promising youth in arms even if a bit "teen" for his manners, or something like that. Also I think Athanar could stretch for Scyrr if he is an exceptionally good soldier - actually I don't see any other reason why he would have Scyrr among his ranks (he seems to be a kind of a guy lord Athanar would have gotten rid off in the first possible moment) - so beware anyone of you if you wish to try him with your character, he's going to beat you all as he still hangs around...

So what I'm kind of missing are the "good guys"...

Lord Athanar is a high lord of the eorlingas, trusted by king Eomer, a war hero and a renowned leader from the Pelennor Fields. So his soldiers are not the lowest of the mob but among the best there is in whole Rohan. We can have one or two specialities to make twists to the storyline (like Aforglaed or Scyrr) but the overwhelming majority of them should be something like "on the level of Thornden" - if that helps you gain the picture.

So hero-characters available! Finders' keepers'!

The young and a bit insecure Baldwic (son of Baldwin) and the firmer & older Feargall come to mind... (see http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=614847) and others can be come up with.


Anyway, let's go forwards! Soonish...


How are your timetables, "Bostonmooters" & "Praguemooters"? Should we make a general pause for a few days or how are your scheduals?

[Folwren]

Thornden's so much your general 'good guy' that I really don't want to take on another. Saeryn is also pretty much understanding and Javan's my only outlet of 'fun'. So I will continue my passive position on this and not take any more characters....though maybe it would be a good thing if I created a sort of NPC.
That would be fun. Then I wouldn't have to keep writing him, but I'd be able to develop him enough for others to use...hm hoom. Good thoughts. Thanks for the nudge, Nogrod.

I might post something in the near future, especially if I plan to form a 'good' NPC. I guess Thornden will need to go to the drill, too, so I could always post for him. But I don't know exactly what is happening, and as Thornden is not in charge, I feel no particular urge to figure out/decide what IS going to happen. So I may wait on writing a post for him...maybe until Dury or whoever is actually in charge (Legate?) writes a post or posts something here.

K, I've babbled on about very little for too long. Byea.

-- Foley

EDIT: P.S. I remembered something just now and decided I could take the opportunity and be one of those bratty little teacher's pet people who raises hand after the teacher scolds the class and says something to the effect of, "I've done it right, Miss Prism" with an innocent little face...

I did create a respectful NPC in a post long ago, who addressed Saeryn when Saeryn discovered Lord Athanar's horse in Flithaf's stall. Saeryn demanded what horse is this, and the soldier stood up from grooming his horse, stepped forward slightly, and politely responded. So, see, we do have some nice people involved.

[Folwren]

I think I thought of something to write last night, so today I hope to have time to write it. Harrah!

-- Foley

[Groin Redbeard]

Well, I have spent some time in the real world (actually read Tolkien books again) and I decide that I like it too much to return to the land of the dead. I hope that you will forgive me if I write one last post to sum up my characters. I could not resist giving them happy endings. All but Lithor and Erbrand—that story is up in the air if they are caught or not—however, that is up to ya’ll. Although the soldier’s are going to drill, I could not resist having Erbrand have one more brawl before he leaves. Sorry if I beat him up too much, but that can be ignored if you wish. I won’t be here to criticize it.

This tale has been fun to weave and I am sure that it will continue to be fun, despite my absence. I’ll be praying for every one of ya’ll, pray for me.

Goodbye,
~Groin Redbeard

[Mnemosyne]

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

This tale has been fun to weave and I am sure that it will continue to be fun, despite my absence. I’ll be praying for every one of ya’ll, pray for me.

Goodbye,
~Groin Redbeard

Oh my...

There's really not much more to say...

[Folwren]

I finally got a post up, but it is still incomplete...at least, it's not as complete as I would like it to be. But time presses on me again, and I know not when I'll be able to write again, so I wanted to get it up, in case I do not have a chance before tomorrow. It at least starts the ball rolling...maybe...

-- Foley

[Folwren]

Okay, I've posted again...sorry...got a rush, I guess.

I have left an obvious opening for Athanar. I have also made it possible for Degas to be posted for. Also, in my first post, it is clear for any soldier to post, especially Coenred.

I think that's all I'll post for this evening. Looking forward to action again on this game.

-- Foley

[Gwathagor]

Man, I need to work harder at making Crabannan interact with other people. My introspection groove turned into a rut a while back, I think.

[Folwren]

Yeah, Crabannan does need to interact. The introverted posts are interesting, but I imagine you can only do so many of those before you burn out. I think it'd be fun if he and Javan started to get to know each other! I'm open and ready whenever you are.

-- Foley

[Gwathagor]

Good idea. Crabannan could be a bad influence, if you like.

[Folwren]

Well...he hardly needs a bad influence, but it would be interesting, nontheless. Sounds fun. Shall we try it?

-- Foley

[Folwren]

Wow, things have really been quiet aroud here, and a WW game isn't even in progress. That's...scary...

-- Foley

EDIT: That is to say, there's one in progress, but it hasn't started yet.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Though I'm home, I'm in no mental condition to even catch up just now. So I wanted to stop in and reinforce my statement that you guys can responsibly use my characters until my return, that I'll be back when I can, and that I look forward to having the time and energy to write blithely for fun again!

[Folwren]

A new character. What fun.

Name: Quin

Age/Gender/Race/Where From: 19. Male. Rohirrim. Edoras

Appearance: Average height, thinly built, blond hair, blue eyes, round, childish face.

Bits of Character/History You Might Fell Helpful In Defining the Character: Quin is shy and mild, most of the time. He is still feeling his way through life and figuring out who he is. This is his first time away from Edoras, and he’s a little intimidated. He wants to please, but he can be clumsy.

He was born in Edoras to a soldier and his wife. His father went to war when Rohan went to fight at the Pelennor fields, and he did not return. Quin was five years old at the time. His mother found work where she could, but it was difficult to support herself and her son. When he was ten, she approached lord Athanar, a man under whom her husband had fought during the war, and asked him if he would take Quin as a page, to bring him up and raise him to be an eorlinga. Athanar agreed, and when Quin turned eleven, he moved into Athanar’s household.

He worked hard during his time there, and as he grew older, he was trained in the art of war and weaponry. He did not like being separated from his mother at first, and he did not like Athanar’s sons, who are about the same age as he. However, he got over his homesickness and learned to live in his new environment. Lately he has been officially added to the men-at-arms and he's still unsure of himself.

- - - - - - - - - -

LINKED ~*~ Pio

[Folwren]

In my last two posts I left openings for Gwathagor to write and Durelin. And also, I mentioned Aedhel coming into the mead hall.

-- Foley

[Folwren]

Hm. I know patience is a virtue. But could I at least hear if someone was intending to post sometime? When they got inspiration? Or time? Or something? Fea, are you around? What about Nienna? Gwathagor? I know some people are busy in the WW game...but it's night now, so maybe someone will have a chance in the next twenty-two hours and forty-minutes to post (yeah, I keep tabs). Maybe?

Well...I'll go back to being patient.

-- Foley

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Foley

we forgot Aedre altogether

Well, I didn't... But it was clear lord Athanar would not wish to draw her there into any discussions. What he (and Wynflaed) would do with Aedre would be their personal decision - and a private one.

So it was not a question of a trial in a democratic society where impartial judges weigh all the parties to the row and then try to find a just verdict but - as Groin said - a show. But a show put up for a reason. If the bodily integrity of someone belonging to the lord's family is violated, there is no lord who could just leave the matter be. Such offences must be somehow dealt with in public.

Heh, I think if Athanar would be "an ironfisted" leader (as Groin so nicely puts it) he would just have announced the sentence after the breakfast, and it probably wouldn't have been such a considerate one either.


And as we're on our way to Lithor's hearing I'd like to point to the same issue. I don't think a medieval / Middle-Earthish / feudal eorl would have to consult anyone - or even hear anyone - when he makes decisions on disciplinary issues concerning his subordinates. So I think lord Athanar is showing some real consideration and goodwill letting Lithor speak publicly in the first place - and letting what he (and especially Thornden) says affect his judgement. That's why I have tried to use the word "hearing" all the time.

Okay. The mini-novel called Lithor's hearing will be posted soonish...

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Groin

You have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.

Why, thank you, sir! I'm glad I did not offend.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So it was not a question of a trial in a democratic society where impartial judges weigh all the parties to the row and then try to find a just verdict but - as Groin said - a show. But a show put up for a reason. If the bodily integrity of someone belonging to the lord's family is violated, there is no lord who could just leave the matter be. Such offences must be somehow dealt with in public.

Yeah, that's how I see it. I figure that if someone hit the president's daughter in a schoolyard fight there would be more to-do than if the same bully had hit someone else's daughter. Of course, vastly different situation and rulers and courts and stuff, but still...that's where I'm coming from.

And as we're on our way to Lithor's hearing I'd like to point to the same issue. I don't think a medieval / Middle-Earthish / feudal eorl would have to consult anyone - or even hear anyone - when he makes decisions on disciplinary issues concerning his subordinates. So I think lord Athanar is showing some real consideration and goodwill letting Lithor speak publicly in the first place - and letting what he (and especially Thornden) says affect his judgement. That's why I have tried to use the word "hearing" all the time.

Right. I think that if I were writing an eorl it would be much different. I'm glad Nogrod is writing Athanar. He's turning out fairly nice-ish.

-- Foley

[Groin Redbeard]

Alright, I'll bite my tongue.... absolute power corrupts absolutely!

[Nogrod]

Okay! It's finally there!

Three cheers to you Foley and Groin (and Lommy)! It was so much fun to write that together!


PS. Did you know Groin that that quote of yours concerning absolute power corrupting is by lord Acton? A fitting title in this context.