The Rohirrim, why horses? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morthoron · 01-09-2010, 05:39 PM

The Rohirrim have horses because the Anglo-Saxons lost to the Normans. Tolkien felt that if King Harold and his Housecarls had had a standing cavalry in 1066, they would not have lost the Battle of Hastings, and England, to the invading William the Bastard and his motley band of Norman barons and continental freebooters. Thus, the Anglo-Saxon monarchy would have retained sovereignity over England, and remained to subjugate, overtax and make lives miserable for the peasantry, rather than have foreigners do the same except much more efficiently.

Goldberry123 · 01-09-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

The Rohirrim have horses because the Anglo-Saxons lost to the Normans. Tolkien felt that if King Harold and his Housecarls had had a standing cavalry in 1066, they would not have lost the Battle of Hastings, and England, to the invading William the Bastard and his motley band of Norman barons and continental freebooters. Thus, the Anglo-Saxon monarchy would have retained sovereignity over England, and remained to subjugate, overtax and make lives miserable for the peasantry, rather than have foreigners do the same except much more efficiently.

Thank you for that theory. Do you have a title of a book or article in which Tolkien expressed this opinion, so I could read up in full?

Morthoron · 01-09-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldberry123

Thank you for that theory. Do you have a title of a book or article in which Tolkien expressed this opinion, so I could read up in full?

Where did I get that from...hmmm? Being too lazy to research, I think it came from Tom Shippey's The Road To Middle-earth, but don't quote me on that.

The revisionist Anglo-Saxon as cavalrymen angle to the Rohirrim has been batted around by Tolkien scholars for years. Or, maybe I just made it up. Yes, I made it up just now. It's fascinating how my mind works.

Ummm...what were we talking about again?

Iulbahar · 01-14-2010, 02:14 PM

There is some archaeological evidence of a 'horse tribe' in England long before the Norman conquest, which I think Tolkien may have been referring to. (Don't ask for references right now as I'm too tired!)
As to the question 'Why horses?' My answer would be, you need to have experience of horses to understand. Even today, contact with horses changes lives. In previous centuries, even up to 100 years ago, possession and knowledge of horses gave you immense power, in the 'dark ages' even more so.
Personally I couln't live without horses, they are one of the few things that make life worthwhile, so I guess I would have been a Rider of Rohan in Middle Earth.

Pitchwife · 01-14-2010, 02:51 PM

Wow - another venerable shadow from the First Age of the Downs returning from the Halls of Mandos? Pleased to meet you, Iulbahar!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iulbahar

There is some archaeological evidence of a 'horse tribe' in England long before the Norman conquest, which I think Tolkien may have been referring to. (Don't ask for references right now as I'm too tired!)

You may be thinking of the White Horse of Uffington. It's quite impressive, and since I've seen it myself, I can't help imagining that the device on the Rohirrim's shields, white horse on a green field, looked somewhat like it.

Raynor · 01-15-2010, 02:30 AM

I would say we need to consider more the influence of Orome, who seems to have been known to them (Bema); they also seem to be quite acquainted with the mearas, who most likely are related to Nahar. The Rohirrim are also descendants of the Edain, which might have given them even greater perception of the standing of the mearas, at least. They must have become aware, at one level or the other, that near them were beings related to the blessed lands, likely filled with magical powers. Their natural affinity with the larger race of the horses might be a testimony to their affinity with the "Light side".

Findegil · 01-15-2010, 05:47 AM

What about the suggestiveness (is that actually a english word?) of the names of Anglosaxen leaders? Beside the legendary Hengest and Horsa and their contamporary Eomaer we have another bunch of horse related names some generations further down the line (e.g. Eormenric, Eorpwald). These names suggest a connection between the anglosaxson and Horses which is (and Was also in Tolkiens time) known to be not found archilogical relicts. But it night have influenced Tolkiens, who was profeionally very concentrated on words and names, in depicting the Rohirrim.

Respectfully
Findegil

PrinceOfTheHalflings · 01-15-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Where did I get that from...hmmm? Being too lazy to research, I think it came from Tom Shippey's The Road To Middle-earth, but don't quote me on that.

You are right, it was Shippey.

01-09-2010, 05:39 PM	#1
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	The Rohirrim have horses because the Anglo-Saxons lost to the Normans. Tolkien felt that if King Harold and his Housecarls had had a standing cavalry in 1066, they would not have lost the Battle of Hastings, and England, to the invading William the Bastard and his motley band of Norman barons and continental freebooters. Thus, the Anglo-Saxon monarchy would have retained sovereignity over England, and remained to subjugate, overtax and make lives miserable for the peasantry, rather than have foreigners do the same except much more efficiently. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

01-14-2010, 02:14 PM	#4
Iulbahar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Greece Posts: 23	The Rohirrim, why horses? There is some archaeological evidence of a 'horse tribe' in England long before the Norman conquest, which I think Tolkien may have been referring to. (Don't ask for references right now as I'm too tired!) As to the question 'Why horses?' My answer would be, you need to have experience of horses to understand. Even today, contact with horses changes lives. In previous centuries, even up to 100 years ago, possession and knowledge of horses gave you immense power, in the 'dark ages' even more so. Personally I couln't live without horses, they are one of the few things that make life worthwhile, so I guess I would have been a Rider of Rohan in Middle Earth.

01-15-2010, 02:30 AM	#6
Raynor Eagle of the Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sarmisegethuza Posts: 1,058	I would say we need to consider more the influence of Orome, who seems to have been known to them (Bema); they also seem to be quite acquainted with the mearas, who most likely are related to Nahar. The Rohirrim are also descendants of the Edain, which might have given them even greater perception of the standing of the mearas, at least. They must have become aware, at one level or the other, that near them were beings related to the blessed lands, likely filled with magical powers. Their natural affinity with the larger race of the horses might be a testimony to their affinity with the "Light side". __________________ "May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."

01-15-2010, 05:47 AM	#7
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	What about the suggestiveness (is that actually a english word?) of the names of Anglosaxen leaders? Beside the legendary Hengest and Horsa and their contamporary Eomaer we have another bunch of horse related names some generations further down the line (e.g. Eormenric, Eorpwald). These names suggest a connection between the anglosaxson and Horses which is (and Was also in Tolkiens time) known to be not found archilogical relicts. But it night have influenced Tolkiens, who was profeionally very concentrated on words and names, in depicting the Rohirrim. Respectfully Findegil