The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2010, 02:31 PM   #1
Rumil
Sage & Onions
 
Rumil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Britain
Posts: 894
Rumil has been trapped in the Barrow!
Eye

Perhaps they both popped back to Beleriand during or after the War of Wrath for a bit of a chat with Eonwe et al before returning to Eriador?
__________________
Rumil of Coedhirion
Rumil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 06:32 PM   #2
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Ah, I missed the gist of your question, which is indeed a bit more difficult. Rumil's answer is of course possible but it requires some slightly fancy construal and certainly Occam would prefer just one trip across the mountains.

A possibility, at least logically, is that different mountains are being referred to in the two quotes. But the RGEO quote specifically refers to the Ered Luin, so that option isn't promising. (Forgetting that the mountain range was specified in the RGEO quote, I speculated that she crossed the Blue Mountains before the fall of Gondolin and later crossed the Misty Mountains after the fall of Thangorodrim, but alas, that doesn't work.)

I suppose one could always fall back upon the explanation that Galadriel simply mis-spoke in LotR, or mis-remembered the details of her movements - her statement was, after all, made thousands of years after the events she's recalling. On the other hand, I'd expect that if one had been in Beleriand between the fall of Gondolin and the Great Battle, one would darn well remember it.
Aiwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 05:46 AM   #3
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
My feeling is that the story in RGEO is to condensded, to extract the times and movements accuratley. Further on it is written from an external perspective. (I do not remember the details, is it JRR Tolkien writing about Middle-Earth? Or did he employ some 'Translator-devise' in RGEO?) What it makes clear is that Galadriel comunicated with Eonwe or someone else in his train. But since the Eldar were able of communication by thought, she must not have been in Beleriand for this.

Thus I would say that Galadriel cross Ered Luin earlier and stayed in Eriador. The author of RGEO made a understandable mistake by assuming that for the conversation reported she would have to be in Beleriand (which is not true) and therefore assumed that she must have crossed the mountians later.

Respectfuly
Findegil
Findegil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 07:47 AM   #4
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Thanks for the responses. Here's my attempt:

'He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin [a very long time ago] I passed over the mountains [into Beleriand, over Ered Wethrin], and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat.'

Not perfect obviously, one problem being that if this was the (imagined) meaning, Galadriel had passed into Beleriand before the founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin. However, the fall of these cities may be more notable to Galadriel as a general historical marker, so to speak, and this is very compressed history. I note also the song of Durin:

'The world was fair, the mountains tall,
In Elder Days before the fall
Of mighty kings in Nargothrond
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away:
The world was fair in Durin's Day.'


I like the idea because it seems (to me) to include that Galadriel met Celeborn after Galadriel crossed the mountains, and then they basically stayed together to fight the long defeat -- the first crossing has Galadriel passing into Beleriand, the second, with Celeborn (over Eredluin), takes them into Eriador and on to Eregion.

Of course I am biased (and this is what led me to my Hithlum thread)

So I invite any and all opinions: acceptable enough? too far of a stretch? don't be shy if you think it needs rending -- or, if you have more alternate suggestions too.
Galin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
The Might
Guard of the Citadel
 
The Might's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,205
The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
I couldn't come up with a better explanation for this.
Sounds good to me
__________________
“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown
The Might is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 01:57 PM   #6
Ibrīnišilpathānezel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Ibrīnišilpathānezel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the Helcaraxe
Posts: 733
Ibrīnišilpathānezel is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Ibrīnišilpathānezel is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Works for me, too. I was thinking that Galadriel would have had to cross mountains more than once, since, if she came across the Helcaraxe, she would have needed to cross mountains to enter Doriath. Unless she decided to sink with the part of Middle-earth that went under during the War of Wrath, she would have eventually needed to cross mountains again, the Blue Mountains that are mentioned, and eventually the Misty Mountains, unless she decided to go around them to get to Lothlorien. When Galadriel says that she (or they) "passed over the mountains," it doesn't necessarily mean a single crossing or a single range. It may just mean she kept moving east until she settled in Lothlorien. And even then, she crossed back over the mountains to go to meetings of the White Council in Rivendell, then crossed them again to go home.
__________________
Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :)
Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill
Ibrīnišilpathānezel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.