Werewolf LXXII: Now There's the Truth of It! (Game Thread)

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I just don't see the point of this objection. It looks like you'd wish us not to talk of whom we actually suspect so as to let the wolves skip freely in the shadows? It's the point of the game-mechanics that we vote for confidence, but our goal nevertheless is getting the wolves lynched. Or do you have a different goal?

I didn't say don't talk about suspects. Just think about the other side too. That is the point of this game- we don't want it to end up just like any other. Of course, without suspicions you also can't have people that you trust more than those you find suspicious, but "quasi-votes for lynching" (as you call them) on Day 1?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How would that be?

It's hard enough trying to work out who's ahead on the vote count normally, but in this system it will be many times harder. If quasi-lynch-votes are cast in the last hour it would be quite crazy.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Do you focus on everyone with the same effort everyDay in a normal ww-game? So no one manages to sneak from your view, no "middle-people" ever have it safer in normal games? And does that mean you have "totally forgotten" them in a normal game?

No, but that's what's special about this game. It makes us put people into the "trust" and "don't trust" categories. We have to focus on what everyone says, and everyone has to speak, because if they don't they are likely to die. If we then have a "want-to-lynch", then it leaves us with a "don't-trust-but-don't-want-to-lynch" category, which is probably the safest place for the wolves to hide. If we don't have one, it gives them less self-confidence if they are on it, and will probably feel like they have to prove themselves.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And that's why we need suspicions, even quasi-votes for lynching.

Of course we need suspicions. But on Day 1, where there is little chance of making an informed decision anyway, I think we should at least give the current system a try before we start making amendments. Firstly, what sort of arguments can we come up with to lynch someone on Day 1 anyway? Secondly, tomorrow we will be able to see the problems that occurred to today and then improve upon them- we've never even tried this.

Also, I think this game makes an easier Day 1 than normal. Usually, you have to try to come up with some (usually very unsubstantiated) argument about why you want to lynch someone, while here you only have to decide about the people you trust more or "feel good about".

edit: x-ed since last post.

[Nerwen]

Back and reading.

[Pitchwife]

Time for a list.

Tend to trust / would like to trust (in alphabetical order):
Eönwë, Gwath, Nienna, Nog. All of them have been posting and making good points.

To a slightly lesser degree, the same goes for:
Izzy, Mira, Nerwen, wilwa; maybe Brinn, if there were just a little more from her.

Not sure whether to trust, but find valuable:
Lottie, Zil. Because they're de facto the only ones who have actively suspected anybody yet (unlike Nog, who's only talking about it).

No idea about:
Fea, Form, Glirdan, Rune.

Suspect:
???

My problem is that because of the special game mechanics, I'm wary of the very kind of people I'd usually trust, while on the other hand I haven't seen anything outstanding yet that calls for suspicion. So I'll probably vote for someone I tend to trust as Simon, but spread some votes among the rest as well.

(x-ed from #80)

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So I'll probably vote for someone I tend to trust as Simon, but spread some votes among the rest as well.

Actually, it might be quite interesting to make someone you're unsure about Simon this early in the game, as it puts them under a lot of pressure. On the other hand, this probably wouldn't work because everyone gets they're own choices, so unless we decide as a group who we want as Simon, this won't work. And deciding who it is beforehand will just give the wolves another place to hide (was that a third hand or back to the first?).

[Nogrod]

I think you Eönwë and Pitch are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I didn't say we change the rules of the game. What I said was that we should not only concentrate on finding people we trust (which the wolves would love) but also trying to find out the wolves.

I can't see what's the problem.

Okay. I'll go back now anyway to try and say something about people before I go to sleep (the DL - 6AM - is horrendous to me once again and I need to vote early). I hope you guys follow the example of making some suspicions out. Being just loud or talking a lot is not the same thing as actually putting oneself into the fray. As said, wolves might wish to be supportive and generally helpful but would hate to raise any retaliations or opposition in general.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think you Eönwë and Pitch are making a mountain out of a molehill here. I didn't say we change the rules of the game. What I said was that we should not only concentrate on finding people we trust (which the wolves would love) but also trying to find out the wolves.

I was just telling you to calm down.

We haven't even seen what a day is like with this new concept is like and you're already suggesting we make an alterations before we even try it out. Let's see how people cope with the voting toDay before we start adding stuff. Don't try to turn this back into a normal game already.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I didn't say don't talk about suspects. Just think about the other side too. That is the point of this game- we don't want it to end up just like any other.

I would hope that you're more concerned with winning than with making sure this game doesn't "end up just like any other."

[Gwathagor]

That's basically a distraction - or could turn into one, I should say.

(Whoa! I'm not in invisible mode. Shoot.)

[Nienna]

Children, children... calm down... its fine... just a game.

[Nienna]

So these are the post counts. It looks like everyone, except Fea, has made some sort of contribution.

Brinn - 1
Dun - 5
Fea - 1 - first post... not saying anything
Form - 2
Glirdan - 3
Gwath - 3
Izzy - 3
Lottie - 7
Mira - 4
Nerwen - 7
Nienna - 6
Nog - 11
Pitch - 5
Rune - 2
Steve - 12
Wilwa - 2

[Isabellkya]

I'm not entirely sure as to why people are thinking this is way different than "normal". Quite often, when people vote - it comes down to a "whomever is left".

People will makes lists of their thoughts on every player, putting into categories of "innocentish, won't lynch, slightly suspicious.." etc. Then voting for a person whom either they find suspicious, or whomever is "left over" and they've "no idea about".

Here, we are just placing our votes with/on/for people whom we want to keep around. Not entirely different than making lists. By voting for whom you want to keep around, it already shows whom you may think is suspicious indirectly.

X'd with Nienna x2.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I'm not entirely sure as to why people are thinking this is way different than "normal". Quite often, when people vote - it comes down to a "whomever is left".

People will makes lists of their thoughts on every player, putting into categories of "innocentish, won't lynch, slightly suspicious.." etc. Then voting for a person whom either they find suspicious, or whomever is "left over" and they've "no idea about".

Here, we are just placing our votes with/on/for people whom we want to keep around. Not entirely different than making lists. By voting for whom you want to keep around, it already shows whom you may think is suspicious indirectly.

X'd with Nienna x2.

Not entirely... I think that with 16 people and only 4 votes then one doesn't really find 12 people suspicious... or wolfish. They are just the people left over who you don't have confidence in or who you don't want to die.

Edit: Crossed with Glirdan

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I would hope that you're more concerned with winning than with making sure this game doesn't "end up just like any other."

Yeah, but we can at least explore the opportunities of this game before turning it into one "like any other". We have a whole Day with basically nothing to go on today, and it might be useful later on in the game to understand more about "trust-voting" instead of almost ignoring it altogether and basing your suspicions on the conventional methods. This game gives us another wolf-catching tool, let's at least see if we can use it before reverting straight back to the Old Ways.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Yeah, but we can at least explore the opportunities of this game before turning it into one "like any other". We have a whole Day with basically nothing to go on today, and it might be useful later on in the game to understand more about "trust-voting" instead of almost ignoring it altogether and basing your suspicions on the conventional methods. This game gives us another wolf-catching tool, let's at least see if we can use it before reverting straight back to the Old Ways.

I always was one for the Old Ways.

[Isabellkya]

Two and three quarter hours until deadline, if I'm doing the conversion right?