The Purpose of Man

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I agree with Inziladun, and I have always seen it that way, especially LotR is very strong in that. Likewise the very end sentence of the Silmarillion underlines it. Of course I have never been thinking about where it "started", but for some reason, I have been always looking at it from the complex point of view, and that this was just thing that has been sort of present there from the beginning. Arda Marred, everything fades. Elves cannot just bear it forever either. And not just Elves, I always think also of the last debate with Treebeard (in reply to his famous line about "never" being too long word even for him, Gandalf's rather shocking - in that context - remark that maybe kingdoms of Men will outlast him in this Age). It's a sort of thing soaking through and through everything (at least everything ancient and "magical"), I don't see why the Elves would be an exception.

Originally Posted by alatar

Aren't they Eru's 'insurance policy' against the guttering of the light? When Melkor rose up again with another theme, Eru counters with Man, and only then are we assured that the Music will never stop completely.

That's one good point too, however I would not call them "insurance policy" just like that. They, as a theme, are a response to Melkor: they mean life and new creation instead of death and destruction presented by Melkor. In that sense, they are "insurance policy", but partially sort of unknowingly. Just because they are, if we wanted to use some philosophical language, we could say that "life and continuation of creation is Men's essence". However, there is also of course the chance of Men grasping sort of consciously the role of the "insurance policy", meaning that they would really materially oppose Sauron or Morgoth (as it happened). But I think the fundamental truth of what you said lies in the former thing I mentioned.

Originally Posted by alatar

But I think that chaos was part of the plan...just not too much chaos.

Sure, that's what I meant. I see despite my effort it did not sound clear enough: I said "against totally unchecked chaos", meaning "against that kind of chaos, which is totally unchecked". That was the whole point of it.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That's one good point too, however I would not call them "insurance policy" just like that. They, as a theme, are a response to Melkor: they mean life and new creation instead of death and destruction presented by Melkor. In that sense, they are "insurance policy", but partially sort of unknowingly. Just because they are, if we wanted to use some philosophical language, we could say that "life and continuation of creation is Men's essence". However, there is also of course the chance of Men grasping sort of consciously the role of the "insurance policy", meaning that they would really materially oppose Sauron or Morgoth (as it happened). But I think the fundamental truth of what you said lies in the former thing I mentioned.

Just to chime in here, I agree with Legate that "insurance policy" gives the wrong connotation, insofar as it suggests a sort of "just in case" response on Eru's part, otherwise undesirable, and a second-best option (the best of course being not to have the incident in the first place). Men are the second race of Children, but they are not "second-best." It's probably better to think of the as the second stage of a rocket, intended to be boosted to a certain height by the Eldar before thrusting forward with our "purpose" as the Elves fade from sight.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Just to chime in here, I agree with Legate that "insurance policy" gives the wrong connotation, insofar as it suggests a sort of "just in case" response on Eru's part, otherwise undesirable, and a second-best option (the best of course being not to have the incident in the first place). Men are the second race of Children, but they are not "second-best." It's probably better to think of the as the second stage of a rocket, intended to be boosted to a certain height by the Eldar before thrusting forward with our "purpose" as the Elves fade from sight.

Admittedly, and now obviously, it was not the best way to describe the creation of Mankind.

Think that, however, you *do* understand my intent, which was that humans are a counter to Melkor. The elves could only do so much, even with their superhuman 'powers.' The failing, to call it that, of the elves, is that they could become contented. Humans were given the gift of discontent, with Arda, with everything. This creative force might make ugly things, but it would also produce survivors, insuring that some would remain to fight the darkness.

[skip spence]

The feeling I get is that Men are the main characters in the whole Arda saga. Elves are just supplementary, they are there to get Men a good start, to set an example. It is Men that will complete the story, bring it to a climax; they are the prime movers at the centre of Eru's plan. And Dwarves, they're just Eru doing a buddy a favour, aren't they?

[mikelangelo11]

Men were the youngest race in Middle-earth , they awoke when the sun first rose. They have the Gift of Death, given to them by Iluvatar and allows them to go beyond the confines of the world.