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#1 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 104
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I think we could say that it is Mandos, with Iluvatar’s permission, that grants that fulfillment of curses and decides which curses get fulfilled and which ones don’t. Mandos to me seems like someone who does not talk much, but when he talks it is important because he seems to speak prophecies or dooms. For example there is the curse of Mandos on the Noldor. So I think we could say that when a curse is said in Middle-earth Mandos hears it, consults Iluvatar about it, and then based on what he says either fulfils it or denies it. Of course this is just speculation. Of corse in Morgoth's case with Túrin it is Morgoth's will that carries out the curse.
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#2 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Good idea, Nazgul-king. Why not, as for the matter of who sort of puts the curse to action, I don't see why it couldn't be Mandos and there are indeed instances, like the Doom of Noldor, that support this claim. Let's just emphasise, however, that it's not Mandos' initiative to curse the Noldor or something, but he is merely doing somebody else's will (as you have basically said in your post, I only felt the need to emphasise it). So if Yavanna for example is the so-called "minister of nature" among the Valar, Mandos might as well be the "minister of curses" (or "minister of justice", if you want it to sound better).
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#3 |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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But doesn't Mandos know all that is to come? Unless that is a line is a my mind made up. But I don't think Mandos is the decision-making type, nor one to offer his opinion. He reluctantly issues dooms yes and he's never wrong, but I think that is because he knows what's going to happen and not because he makes it happen.
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#4 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Quote:
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#5 |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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Think so too. And isn't that a good argument that Mandos is not one to deny or enable individual curses. It is not within his jurisdiction or power to do so. Mandos too is bound by the Music.
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan |
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#6 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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In other words:
Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#7 | |
Dead Serious
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Quote:
However, insofar as this nuance is sort of contained in the quoted statement from The Valaquenta, it's more of an emphasis than a disagreement on my part.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#8 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Quote:
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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