WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Inziladun]

Boro, hmm? The obvious question is why.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Maybe Lottie is the other Sherriff? Boro switched votes to save her?

Possible. It might explain why he said this when he gave his vote for Fea:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm sorry hun, if you're innocent. Duty is forcing me to make this choice.

What other 'duty' could he have been referring to?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Boro, hmm? The obvious question is why.

Why? Because we failed at sublety. Seriously, if no one noticed that but the wolves, I'll be surprised.

Possible. It might explain why he said this when he gave his vote for Fea:



What other 'duty' could he have been referring to?

Heh. Funny story...let's just say there were many pms with both of us not knowing who to vote for. We wanted to kill Greenie but didn't think we could; we didn't want to kill Mira at all; we would settle for Fea if we had to... At the last moment, Boro chose my life over a possible Greenie lynch.

~~~

List!

Trust absolutely:
Just me now.

Trust pretty much:
Nog
Zil
Mira
Shasta
Nienna
Nerwen

Trust mostly:
Legate
Lommy
WW
SS
Morsul

Unsure:
Izzy
Brinn

Wolves:
Glirdy
Sally
Agan
Greenie

Will vote:
Glirdy
Sally
Agan
Greenie

Will not vote:
Anyone else.

[Thinlómien]

Good morning!

First off, I'm quite surprised Fea turned out to be the cobbler. I was so certain she was either an innocent or a wolf playing her regular retraction tactic. (No one says she couldn't have been a cobbler playing her regular retraction tactic but she could've been a cobbler doing anything.) Anyway, given that we were probably wrong about Lottie (by "we" I of course mean all the Lottie voters, most of which I know in RL) it was very good she was lynched instead of her. In other words, I believe Lottie's claim.

As for Boro, someone asked why him. Someone suggested the tie between him and Lottie was obvious. Well, it wasn't so obvious that I would have noticed so we should look at other possible reasons. (And this is not to say "because I didn't see that, it can't be the reason I killed him" merely that I don't think the connection was that obvious. But on the other hand, there are four wolves who can think together and they might be rereading the thread overNight. Arg, I'll stop flip-flopping and just speculate other reasons what ever the grounds for doing that are!) One thing that comes to my mind is that Boro is a dangerous player, someone the wolves would like to get rid of, and as he was quite quiet yesterDay, he wouldn't have left much tracks to follow. Clean kill to eliminate a potential threat. And of course, we can never dismiss the possibility of the victim giving the wolves gifted vibes.

But these reasons aren't of much use until we have more deaths and can figure out a pattern or we can connect these reasons of killing Boro to some players. My best guess in this light is Morsul who first suggested Boro and Lottie were Shirriffs together.

Off to have a look at yesterDay (there was something very weird there) and possibly reply some points...

[Brinniel]

Loslote, I'm ready to believe you on your claim because it all does make sense, after seeing what went down at the very end of yesterDay. I guess we'll just have to see if anyone else makes the same claim. I doubt it, but in WW you never know.

Fea's role as cobbler isn't exactly the most desired result from a lynch since we'd rather be lynching wolves, but catching the cobbler on Day One isn't too shabby and certainly better than seeing an actual innocent get lynched. For one thing, I think if left alive, Fea could've made out to be quite dangerous as cobbler, so I'm rather relieved we've denied her the opportunity to wreak havoc on the village.

There should be a lot to discuss from yesterDay. The ending was rather interesting, as votes seemed to be all over the place in this frantic attempt to save Loslote. While it's possible one of the Lottie voters is a wolf, I think it's just as likely if not more that at least one of the players trying to save her from getting lynched is a wolf. Defending or trying to save an innocent is a classic werewolf move in the attempt to make themselves look good. The last minute bandwagon attempt against Greenie is something worth looking at. I'm not sure how it all started, but at first glance it does look like the type of bandwagon that would be easy for a wolf to jump on. It's certainly something I want to look into later.

It's really late now, so I'll check further into yesterDay's events come tomorrow. Although I should be doing my homework then, it's the weekend, which means I'll probably spend more time than I should playing WW and being lazy, and then end up pulling another all-nighter come Sunday night. I really ought to learn to discipline myself better.

EDIT: Oh wow, I actually x-posted. And I know I'm going to bed too late when the Finns show up saying good morning...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

EDIT: Oh wow, I actually x-posted. And I know I'm going to bed too late when the Finns show up saying good morning...

Hehe especially as it's like 11am here and not like 7am... Good night, Brinn!

[satansaloser2005]

*glares at Izzy* Oh, that's just not fair....I was gonna do that at some point. Mind, that's not going to stop me from possibly doing it later.

x'd with Lottie

[skip spence]

G'day folks and gentlehobbits...

Skimmed the thread just now and I'm wondering, why is Lottie now though of as a known innocent? Is that based only on Boro's last moment vote retraction?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by skip spence

G'day folks and gentlehobbits...

Skimmed the thread just now and I'm wondering, why is Lottie now though of as a known innocent? Is that based only on Boro's last moment vote retraction?

She's not an absolutely known innocent. However, she's claiming to have a specific role (the remaining Shirriff). If she were a wolf she'd risk exposure by the real Shirriff... and to no purpose, that I can see.

Naturally, if there's a counter-claim, we'll have to rethink the situation.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by skip spence

But with your angle, holding on to this option would appear suspicious and for wolves to retract his or her vote early on would divert attention away from them unless all others quickly follow suit.

Originally Posted by Agan

What do you mean by this?

What I mean is that by your reasoning, honest people would want everybody to get rid of their retractable votes, as this is more favourable for the innocent team. And subsequently the players who refuse to throw away their retractable votes would appear suspect for refusing to comply.

What I'm saying, I guess, is that you are making a big deal of this. It may be an honest initiative to remove a possible threat from the wolves. But it may also be a way to make yourself and others look good, to divert suspicion away from you. It is in the innocents best interest to have no retractable votes left in the game, your say, and thus those who keep theirs must be wolves. But must they really? I'm not so sure...

[wilwarin538]

Boro's death scene has been edited in.

[skip spence]

The wolves know the identity of the cobbler, right?

[wilwarin538]

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Alirin walked further and further from the mushroom and continued down the garden path. After a time she could hear some voices and was curious at whom she would meet next, hoping the conversation would not be cut short due to fatalities.

She turned a bend in the path and came upon an odd house all covered in fur and with chimneys shaped like ears; the two windows and the door also looked like a face. Beside the house was an extremely long table scattered with dishes, and saucers, and cups, and teapots. Even though the table had many seats the three people sitting at it were all crowded close together. In the middle was a dormouse fast asleep, on one side was a hare and the other a man wearing a large hat, and the two were resting their elbows on the Dormouse as they spoke.

“No room! No room!” they cried out when they saw Alirin approaching. “There’s plenty of room!” she responded, rather rudely, and sat down at the head of the table closest to them, without waiting for an invitation.

They sat for a time without saying anything, which Alirin thought odd since they both seemed like the types who would like to chat. Just as she was about to start a conversation (though the weather would certainly not be the subject) the Hatter and the Hare began to sing together.

Twinkle, twinkle little bat!
How I wonder what you’re at!
Up above the world you fly,
Like a tea-tray in the sky.
Twinkle, twinkle - -

This is when the Dormouse shook himself and began singing in his sleep, “twinkle, twinkle, twinkle, twinkle...” and went on so long that the Hatter had to pinch him to stop.

Another moment of silence occurred and then the March Hare decided to speak. “I’m bored; perhaps the young lady will tell us a story.”

“I don’t think I know any!” Alirin responded, feeling alarmed at being put on the spot.

“Then the Dormouse shall!” the Mad Hatter decided as he pinched the little creature awake.

So the Dormouse awoke and began to tell his tale, with curious Alirin interrupting with questions all the while. “There were once three sisters who lived at the bottom of a well...”

“What did they live on?'

“Treacle.” after a moment of thought.

“But they couldn’t have, they’d have been ill.”

“And so they were. Very ill.” the Dormouse responded.

“But why did they live there?” the curious little girl asked.

“Because it was a treacle-well. And so the three little girls were learning to draw.”

“What did they draw?”

“Treacle.” he said, without hesitation.

“I need a clean cup!” the Hatter announced, “move a place over!” And so they all got up and moved a place over. Once they were settled the Dormouse continued.

“They also drew things that began with the latter M, like mouse-traps, and the moon, and muchness – you know, you say things are “much of a muchness” – and memory, and mobility, and mirrors and wolves.”

“Wolves doesn’t start with an M, it starts with a W.” Alirin interrupted.

“Yes, well a W is simply an M upside down; just as if you take the word “mouse” and turn it upside down you get the word “wolf”. So upside down I am actually a dorwolf.” He replied, as he started to dose off again.

Before Alirin could say anything about how little sense this made, the March Hare spoke up. “Well, I didn’t know that about you!” he exclaimed.

“Neither did I!” the Mad Hatter said. And so the two grabbed the sleeping Dormouse by the tail and held him upside down to see what would happen. After merely moments the little creature’s white fur began to turn brown, and large fangs were growing out of his mouth. Feeling afraid the Hare and the Hatter stuffed the transforming Dorwolf into a nearby teapot all full of tea. After holding down the shaking china for a few moments it quickly stopped.

Alirin got up now from her large chair and ran down the path, feeling quite alarmed by the evil dormouse and its sudden demise, and starting to think that perhaps she’d like to go home now.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Dead
Fea - Red Queen - Cobbler - lynched Day 1
Boro - the Caterpillar - Shirriff - killed Night 2
Sally - the Dormouse - Wolf - lynched Day 2

Alive
Glirdan – Mad Hatter
Nogrod – Cheshire Cat
Wintywinty – Tweedledum
Isabellkya – White Rabbit
Mira – March Hare
Agan – Queen of Hearts
Inzil – King of Hearts
Shasta – Knave of Hearts
Lottie – Duchess
Nerwen – the Dodo
Legate – Jabberwocky
Morsul – the Mock Turtle
Nienna – White Queen
Skip – Humpty Dumpty
Lommy – the Gryphon
Greenie – White Knight
Brinniel – Tweedledee

It is now Night 3.

[wilwarin538]

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Alirin decided to stop running when she realised she was fairly far away from the mad tea party. She quickly found the garden path again and continued to walk, hoping that perhaps she could go home soon, or at least meet someone nicer and/or not dead. Soon she happened upon someone familiar.

“The Duchess! The Duchess! Oh my ears and whiskers! She’ll get me executed as sure as ferrets are ferrets! Where could I have dropped them?” the White Rabbit was saying as he searched the ground; it was clear he had lost something, so Alirin started looking around.

Soon the Rabbit noticed her. “Why, Mary Ann, what are you doing here? Run home this instant and fetch me a pair of gloves and a fan! Quick now!” So she did, heading in the direction that he nodded in, not wanting to correct him.

Soon she arrived at a little house with the name W. Rabbit written on the front door. She ran in without knocking because she was scared to bump into the real Mary Ann. Soon she found herself in a little room with a table by the window and, as she had hoped, there was a fan and a pair of gloves sitting on top of it. As she grabbed the gloves and fan she noticed that there was also a little bottle full of a strange liquid, just like the one from the hall with the little door.

Even though there was no label that said “drink me”, she decided to anyway, since she was hoping it would return her to her normal size. She drank down half and soon began to grow so large that she had to stick one arm out the window and a foot up the chimney!

“It was much pleasanter at home,” Alirin said to herself, “when one wasn’t growing bigger and smaller all the time or being ordered about by mice and rabbits. I almost wish I had never gone down that rabbit hole – and yet – it is rather curious here! Perhaps a book should be written about me.”

“Mary Ann! Mary Ann! Fetch me my gloves this moment!” she could hear the White Rabbit yelling from outside. That’s when he noticed that there was an arm sticking out his window and let out a little shriek. Suddenly there were pebbles being thrown at her so she reached out and tried to grab the White Rabbit to make him stop. She only just was able to grab him but he squiggled out and fell. All she heard was a loud thump.

Everything was silent so Alirin looked around the little room. This is when she noticed that some of the pebbles had turned to cakes! She grabbed one up and decided to eat it, figuring she could not get any larger. She ate it up and soon had shrunk down to 16 inches high.

Alirin ran down the stairs and out the door to see what had happened to the Rabbit. She looked around the outside of the house and came upon a large bush. She could see two white feet sticking out of the top of the bush, and it was clear they would not be moving. She had seen enough to know that she wanted to leave this place, so she continued to run down the path, hoping not to meet anyone else.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Dead
Fea - Red Queen - Cobbler - lynched Day 1
Boro - the Caterpillar - Shirriff - killed Night 2
Sally - the Dormouse - Wolf - lynched Day 2
Izzy - White Rabbit - Ordinary - killed Night 3

Alive
Glirdan – Mad Hatter
Nogrod – Cheshire Cat
Wintywinty – Tweedledum
Mira – March Hare
Agan – Queen of Hearts
Inzil – King of Hearts
Shasta – Knave of Hearts
Lottie – Duchess
Nerwen – the Dodo
Legate – Jabberwocky
Morsul – the Mock Turtle
Nienna – White Queen
Skip – Humpty Dumpty
Lommy – the Gryphon
Greenie – White Knight
Brinniel – Tweedledee

It is now Day 3. Posting may begin.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

While it's possible one of the Lottie voters is a wolf, I think it's just as likely if not more that at least one of the players trying to save her from getting lynched is a wolf. Defending or trying to save an innocent is a classic werewolf move in the attempt to make themselves look good. The last minute bandwagon attempt against Greenie is something worth looking at. I'm not sure how it all started, but at first glance it does look like the type of bandwagon that would be easy for a wolf to jump on. It's certainly something I want to look into later.

I'd not ignore the Lottie-voters either. True, I don't want to fall into the "one of them has to be a wolf" trap, because I've played too many games where wolves have kept right out of a bandwagon. However, the circumstances of that particular one are quite odd.

EDIT:X'd since Brinn at #236.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'd not ignore the Lottie-voters either. True, I don't want to fall into the "one of them has them has to be a wolf" trap, because I've played too many games where wolves have kept right out of a bandwagon. However, the circumstances of that particular one are quite odd.

Okay, so who did vote me? In order: Fea, Lommy, Greenie, and Legate.

We already know that Fea was the Cobbler.

Lommy seems genuine to me, plus she was in the least suspicious position - just Fea's silly vote so far.

Legate also looks innocent to me, although mostly because he was Sally and Glirdy's fall-back option as a scapegoat.

So then, Greenie. Her vote post was apologetic, she voted when I was starting to lead the votes (prime bandwaggon spot) and claimed not to have any real reason. If there is a wolf among these four, and I think there is, I'd bet it's Greenie.

[Isabellkya]

We're no strangers to time
You know the rules and so do I
A wolf lynchings what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other player
I just want to tell you what I'm thinking
Gotta make you understand

Always gonna give you up
Never gonna be on time
Never gonna run around and not lynch you
Always gonna make you cry,
Never gonna say goodbye
Always gonna tell the truth and get you lynched

I've known you for this night
Your claws have been aching but you're too shy to say it
Outside we both know whats been going on
We know the game and were gonna play it
And if you ask me what I'm thinking
Don't tell me you're too blind to see it

(ooooh give you up)
(ooooh give you up)
(oooh)always gonna give, always gonna give
(give you up)
(oooh)always gonna give, always gonna give
(give you up)

I've known you for this night
Your teeth have been aching but you're too shy to say it
Inside we both know whats been going on
We know the game and were gonna play it
And if you ask me what I'm thinking
Don't tell me you're too blind to see it

Always gonna give you up
Never gonna be on time
Never gonna run around and not lynch you
Always gonna make you cry,
Never gonna say goodbye
Always gonna tell the truth and get you lynched



That is good to know that Loslote is the other Shirrriff. Though, it was kind o f obvious that there was sooome kind of connection.


X'd with Brin and Lommy.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

*jerks awake*

STOP BLOODY VOTING FOR PEOPLE WITH NO REASON!

Erm....hello. When did you all get here? And would you like some tea? Some....some tea....



*slumbers once more*


ETA: An introduction. *waves* Hello there, winty. I'm Sally. Nice to meet you, blah blah I really shouldn't have edited this in but felt the need to say 'hello' properly so there it is.

ETA #2: Also, winty dear, your vote should technically be placed on a separate line. Just so Wilwa's head doesn't explode.

IC, meaning less; tells people not to vote without reason, which seems helpful but is really fairly obvious.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

*glances up*

Who are all you strange people? There's some young woman all in green and a little man skipping over the fence....pence....sense....



(I don't like the voting either. Rubbish, I say, rubbish. I'm very confused.)

Again, meaningless IC and dislikes the votes.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Little Lottie is being decidedly halfhearted. Even for Day One. Even for her.


I don't know. Maybe I'm just paranoid. (Again.) But you know what normally happens when everyone thinks I'm paranoid....

I'm just sayin'.


EDIT: x'd since Lottie's....erm, 59, I think?

Oh yeah, I'm being halfhearted. Because, of course, dear Sally's posted so much thoughtful stuffs so far.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

*curls up on your shoulder, promptly falls asleep*

OI! GET YOUR FURRY LITTLE PAWS OFF MY SHIRRIFF!!!

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I obviously need to read closer. What is all this seer nonsense?



Also, glad to see that Lommie agrees with me on Lottie. (Oooo, try saying that ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast ten times fast .) Makes me feel not quite as crazy. And a little sleepy, for that matter....


EDIT: x'd with Legate

Is confused by the seer stuffs; half-jokes about Lommy's suspicion of me.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Sorry, dear, but could you clarify this? Do you mean you have any valid points on her or that she's the only one with valid points? I'm not sure what you mean.

Is confused by Greenie's rationale.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh, and I love retractable votes, but I'll just drive myself mad if I have a free pass to mindchanging sitting around. With that....

[*highlight]++Sally

--Sally[/highlight*]


I'm analyzing the votes so far, but please be patient, as I'm really scatterbrained today. That and....well, a nap sounds lovely....and Boro's shoulder is so comfy....

Gets rid of her retractables by voting herself (very cleverly done, btw, doesn't get anyone mad at you and leaves everyone feeling a bit better about you) and...

Get off Boro, please. MY Shirriff. Mine.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

K cool, thanks. I thought that's what she meant, but my brain is a bit....askew today and I didn't want to misunderstand. Thanks for the help! ^_^

Thanks Agan for explaining Greenie's rationale.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Ah, yes, do tell us all your evil plans. Tell us now!

*waits with baited....yes, I actually mean baited....breath*

Half-jokes about Morsul's evility.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'M NOT IN THE TEA POT, YOU SILLY BUGGER!

asqedwscdecfdecdgfdfgfbgbfgbhtnhnhnyuhmi,m uji,jki,lk,.loo.;loo/l/;?[;/'['[/'

^*scrabbles across the keyboard to get away from mean Glirdan*^

IC posting with Glirdy.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

A note:

I've a friend that's ill and am organizing a bit of "yay let's make the poor girl feel better" stuff. That said, I may or may not be going to a meeting in a couple hours (no, really, I haven't decided if I'm going yet or not) so I may not be around much. I'm working on analyzing the votes between all the other stuff but I don't seem to be able to multitask worth a muffin (<3) today so I'm a bit slow.

Warns that she might not be around.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Agreed. (Wow. We really are all mad here.) I think Lottie's suspicious, but I get sick of Day One lynching her.

And definitely agreed on Morsul. Hypocrites should always be the first to go. *nods sagely, head droops, starts to snore*

Suspects me but doesn't want to Day 1 lynch me; agrees about Morsul being suspicious. This is actually agreeing with Shasta's misreading. Just thought I'd point that out. She's not so much reading and forming impressions that other people are confirming; she's bandwaggoning.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Skippy (hehe!):

Instead of the B in the tag, type highlight. Easy as pie (in your eye). ^_^


EDIT: D'oh. x'd with Noggins, who was also using his noggin.

Explaining technicalities to SS.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Lol. You're great. I'm not entirely sure he's joking though, or at least that he's being completely innocent in said joke. But again, paranoid.

Backs off a bit on Morsul but leaves the option of suspecting him open.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

The Europeans are clearly all evil and must be lynched.

(Really, this is true regardless of their role in the game. )

Is way joking about suspecting the Europeans - funny, considering that I think two of them are her packmates. Joking suspicion = distance. Nice little wolf-on-wolf without being too obvious about it.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'm quite concerned with Legate's vote. I suspected Lottie before I even registered that people had been poking at her a lot, and he just seems to want to come along for the ride. It's very disconcerting.


Also, my mother called, so now I didn't get to do anything. Rubbish.


I have to vote in like ten minutes too.

Doesn't like Legate's vote. Now this I quite agree with.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Now that was unexpected....

Is alarmed and surprised by Shasta voting for (her packmate?) Greenie. Bit of an overreaction, dear?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Grar. I want Lottie to live to see another Day, if only one.

[*highlight]++Legate[/highlight*]


For being too excited to lynch Lottie.

Also....for Wilwa....

They're painting their voteses red
They're painting their voteses red
etc.

(I'll do a whole parody if I survive the Night, I swear.)

As poor dead Boro rightly pointed out, if she really wanted me to survive, she wouldn't have done this. Not only is it a throwaway vote, innocent!Sally would have waited until the last possible moment to make her vote count.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

You, my dear, are insane.

But aren't we all!

(Which is to say that the meeting I was at got over superquick and I'm back.)

Jokingly doesn't deny my accusition that she was a wolf. (I believe this is what Nienna was talking about, also, dear - you acknoledge them, but you laugh them all off, and don't take it seriously.) Also says she's back.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Of course you wouldn't, even if I am! Oh, but you should, because you know me far too well and know my secrets.


Also, I totally almost double posted that last post. But I only hit 'submit' once. What the heck?



EDIT: The first line was supposed to say 'secrets', not secret. I corrected the typo, but wanted to let you lot know just in case.

Heh. *is sorry*

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Yes, but she would also therefore be a good asset to the village. And besides, she's super busy, so she can't get up to too many hijinx this game.


I still fault this is egregiously poor reasoning. (And yes, I really just wanted to say egregious.)

Picks on newbieWW, an obvious fall-back for lynching. (Another is Legate, btw. Hmm...who voted him? Oh, right. Glirdy and Sally. Wait a minute! ... )

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Coming from you, that means....next to nothing.


The new kit confuses me very much. Like, very much.

EDIT: x'd since Lottie

Still leaves a WW lynch open, and casts doubt on my denial of guilt.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

You are so very cute when you're flustered. And I still say you're hiding something.

I was hiding something. Now you know what it is, doesn't she, Boro? (Not that it wasn't particularly obvious, in my opinion...we didn't bother to be subtle.)

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

K, so you know you really are paranoid when someone says "We've only had one Night" and you automatically go WOLF!

(No, that's not an accusation. That's me laughing at myself.)

Jokingly not-accuses Izzy.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oi, I like my tests, thanks very much! They're normally very helpful. I mean yeah, they get me lynched a good portion of the time because no one understand them, but they help the village in the end (most of the time). Besides, they're fun.


Fifteen minutes-ish, yes?

Banter about her tests. I hope you don't run any this game, dear. They may be fun, but they sure are confusing.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Yeah, about that. I thought there might be a chance some other people would go for Legate, which is why I voted for him. My other hunch was Morsul, but I was pretty certain no one would go for that, and the other options at the time (if I remember correctly) were Brinn (erm, what?), winty (newbie pass, admittedly), and Mira (again, what?) so I really had to go with my gut. I didn't expect it to be a throwaway though.

And you have to consider that if Lottie suddenly changed her style, that would be just as suspicious as keeping the style she has now. So really, either way, she's screwed. She may as well have fun.

She says she voted for Legate because she thought people might go for him. Looking for an alternate bandwaggon because mine was looking too worrysome?

Also keeps an evil!Lottie option open.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I would if I thought the other candidates were rubbish. Which they are.

And I said I wouldn't kill Lottie. I didn't say I'd save her. There's a big difference. In fact, if you look back at my posts I think you'll find that I suspect her. Yes, I don't want her dead toDay, but if the choice is her or someone who I don't think is a wolf, I'll happily part company with her. (And as I said, I was hoping there would be continued support for a Legate lynch. I was sadly mistaken.)

Doesn't commit at all to me either way - doesn't want to see me dead but wouldn't really mind, either.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

And your proof is where? I thought not. *pats your head anyway* And I quite like it that way, thanks. Means I get to stick around longer and help the village out. ^_^

Insists I have no proof of a wolf!Sally. Acts quite innocent.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Erm, no I didn't. I'm acknowledging them quite a lot, actually. In between giggles.

Still is treating her wolfness as a joke.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Yes, actually. I'd love to help! Help them out with life. Help them away from death. And most certainly help them out of Glirdan's tea, 'cause I like to take my evening baths in there. Better now?

Bit of "I'm innocent!" banter.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

EVERYONE STAY OUT OF MY TEA!

AND FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, ENOUGH WITH THE RETRACTIONS!

GOOD GRAVY AND PINEAPPLE TEA, PEOPLE, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU....


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

(I'm pretty sure I's gonna cross with the moddess.)

Complains about the (admittedly insane) end-Day retractions.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Lottie just lost the game.



Also, my internet's being rubbish so I'll have a look at stuff tomorrow or so and see if I can work out some more stuff. Well, until then I suppose I'm off. Later!


EDIT: x'd with Nienna.

Grrr. I just lost the game. *pokes you*

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh my snap. Really? You've never heard of it?

Converts (maybe) Nienna to Game-playing.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

What she said. Oh, and before I go, what the heck happened at the end of the Day yesterDay? Don't get me wrong, yay dead cobbler, but a dead cobbler is not a dead wolf. Sally demands an....an expla.....explanat....some country.....

Is confused about what happened at end-Day. Basically, dear, you wolves were so close to lynching me that Boro and I had to kill whoever else we could, and Fea happened to be a lucky outcome. Greenie would have been better, but twas so chaotic we were lucky to lynch the cobbler as it was.

~~~

Conclusion: I still think Sally's a wolf, even more so than before. That Legate vote still looks very suspicious.

~~~

Also, edited out all of Silly Sally's smilies because I was very much over the image limit.

EDIT: xed since my last

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

And Boro was a sherriff... which is kind of neutral Not good but he wasn't a seer or anything so that works.

It's not neutral, and it's negative - the Shiriffs talking together can be a powerful thing for the Innocent side. In a way, however, now at least we are sure about Loslote - at least until somebody would make a counter-claim (which would be quite nice, but I don't expect it to happen). Also, it makes perfect sense in the light of her late-yesterDay words like "I am not evil", given the fact that Shiriffs couldn't reveal. I am sure the Wolves have noticed this and also (I have to review yet how the close-to-DL posts went time-wise by timestamps) check the Borovote, if it really saved Lottie, then it must have been obvious. Then the WWs might have been easily thinking "well, Ranger probably would notice this too and would protect Lottie - so let's kill Boro just to be on the safe side!" And maybe there was a chance that some people will still suspect Lottie. So... that's what I think has happened here overNight.

As for Fea being the cobbler, I must say I am happy for the outcome and it seems we were quite lucky. It's not a Wolf, but we don't need to worry about the famous Aganzir's horror scenario, and this is also the only way to be sure and discern a Cobbler from an innocent.

So now I am going to recheck who voted whom and whatnot, and maybe come up with some thoughts. Good that Lottie is making her input, as a known innocent, please continue doing so And btw, no need to weep yet, there is still the possibility that Boro might return from the dead (unless you are targeted and killed at Night, however who knows what the Ranger does...)

And btw, some people yesterDay voiced suspicion about me according to my vote for Lottie, calling it that I jumped on a bandwagon or something, note please that I kept saying that I am going to vote her (and was quite firmly decided to do that) already quite early, and I was the first one to suspect her as far as I am aware (my post where I said it crossposted I think with somebody saying similar suspicion, but that's it). And for that matter, I didn't even realise for quite a long time that Fea's vote was for her as well (as I didn't think about the vote, considering it a "random vote" which, even more likely, is going to be retracted! - cf. Lommy's theory about that Fea cast it only to retract it later. Anyway, I wasn't considering the vote). So my vote was only my vote and that's also why I kept it even with the concern about "easy lynch crowd" (as I said in reply to Nogrod who voiced that concern).

EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen and Lottie

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

So now I am going to recheck who voted whom and whatnot, and maybe come up with some thoughts. Good that Lottie is making her input, as a known innocent, please continue doing so And btw, no need to weep yet, there is still the possibility that Boro might return from the dead (unless you are targeted and killed at Night, however who knows what the Ranger does...)

Ooh, yes! I forgot about that. *dries tears with a little white hanky* Okay, Unicorn, die now before there are any other competing innocents!

...jk. Don't die. Wolf die instead.

Anywho, Boro agreed most fervently about Greenie and Sally. He was not as enthusiastic about Agan and Glirdy, but he did agree that it was likely they were wolfly. He trusted Nienna and Mira most out of everyone who was him or me. Just in case you were wondering.

EDIT: xed with no one but I am sleepy, it's way way way too late, and I'm off to the land of wonders, where I shall dream of waking dead and happier times when no wolf threatened my village. Or chocolate, which ever ends up in my dreams.

[Thinlómien]

Loslote, why are you so sure the wolf quartet is Greenie, Agan, Glirdan and Sally?

And while you answer, I'm really off to check yesterDay. (What did I do before? Checked my bank account - I had got money, yay!, e-mails and had breakfast... )

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Loslote, why are you so sure the wolf quartet is Greenie, Agan, Glirdan and Sally?

And while you answer, I'm really off to check yesterDay. (What did I do before? Checked my bank account - I had got money, yay!, e-mails and had breakfast... )

Right, one more post.

I've said why I think Sally's a wolf.

Boro and I agreed most fervently that Greenie was a wolf based on her vote, general air of apologeticness, and other behaviors that I'll mention in the analysis post I will make tomorrow (as in tomorrow, not toMorrow).

Glirdy's actions scream wolf (especially his Shasta vote - vote someone who looks not at all suspicious because he voted for your packmate? ).

Agan was a main advocate of my death, but didn't actually vote me and thus stayed out of the spotlight. She mostly seemed to be helping quite a bit but didn't really do much in terms of real contribution.

I'll analyze the other three in the morning. For now, I'm too tired and anything I post will be silly.

[Thinlómien]

*ahem*

Okay, wagons

- the Lottie-wagon
- the "I'm so concerned Loslote will be lynched, look at this unreasoned crowd against her" wagon
- the sudden Greenie-wagon
- the victorious Fea-wagon

There's something wrong with Lottie...
I didn't look at this wagon through and through, but it seems to me rather simple. A crowd of people living in Finland had been suspecting Lottie (among others or then just mostly her) during the Day and partly agreed with each others points and then they had to go to sleep and vote, around the same time. Most of them (me, Greenie & Legate) chose to vottie (hahaha a typo but let's leave it means "vote Lottie", obv.), some (Aganzir) didn't. Conclusions? If you ask me, I don't think the wagon is necessarily evil. After all, I thought we had good points against Lottie even though they turned out to be wrong, and everybody had a bit of their own grounds so no one was following others blindly. But of course, the Lottie wagon doesn't make us innocent either. What can we conclude, then? At least this: please people, don't mislead yourselves by concluding I must be more innocent than Legate or Greenie because of the placement of my vote. I think we would all have voted Lottie, whatever the order of our votes, but I just happened to decide to go to sleep first.

Eee! Lottie is an easy lynch and people are voting her for bad grounds! Oo, we're all gonna die!
So what's wrong here? Lottie might be an easy Day1 lynch (I don't remember her fate in the games I've played with her so I can't verify this but I trust it if you say so), but the grounds for voting her weren't lousy - even though she's now proven innocent. It makes me slightly annoyed how some people seeked to discredit all suspicion against Lottie despite the fact she was possibly the person against whom there was presented the biggest amound of rational points thus far.
Guilty of expressing concern over possible Lottie lynch:
- Izzy (first)
- Greenie (although she voted her herself, quite fishy)
- Nogrod (see more below, did this twice btw)
- Legate (dislikes the smoothness of the emerging Lottie wagon - a question: am I reading a totally different game than you others?! for what I've seen, there was the joke Fea vote which seemed like an obvious to be retracted vote, my and Greenie's votes, Sally's suspicion and Agan's suspicion and vote for someone else than Lottie... ..what? should we start suspecting Sally now? she's the only one whose approach could be called "smooth" or sneaky... anyway Mr L himself voted Lottie.)
- Shasta
- Sally ("I think Lottie's suspicious, but I get sick of Day One lynching her." That is perfectly fine, but later she starts a massive operastion Save Private Lottie, which seems rather fishy - like a wolf who tries to look good.)
- Brinn (amidst general wishy-washy warning against bandwagons)
Guilty of ignoring/discrediting the "proof" against Lottie:
- Nogrod (well might be a bit misleading to place him here but I don't like him calling me and Greenie's votes as "rapid lynching queue" while we had been suspecting Lottie for some time already and just had to go to sleep around the same time, later he said there was too much opportunism involved. From whose part, would you clarify?)
- Boro (called it hogwash for obvious reasons!)
- Zil ("this push against Lottie looks bad" - oh dear, by that point more people had expressed concern over the possible lynch of Lottie than voted or spoken for voting for her , later flip-flops on which is more evil: Lottie herself or the wagon, ends up voting neither.)
- Lottie (takes it as another Day1 wagon against her innocent self, but we can maybe forgive that... ha.)
- Shasta ("reasoning on the bandwagon isn't superb" - admitted, but what better reasoning was there around at that time? when I went to sleep, it was in the end of page 2 and Day1 ended on page 6 so I missed quite a lot of discussion... and later Shasta calls voting Lottie bandwagoning on Fea's vote, which is at least from my part absolute nonsense because I was 100% sure Fea'd come back and retract)
- Brinn (her selective memory remembers the early nonsense-points against Lottie, but not the later and more serious ones... how convenient, given that every time someone gets more than one vote it's a bandwagon and you have to cry "evil!")
- Nienna (all her reaction to the points against Lottie: "suspicious bandwagon"... great.)
- Sally and Izzy (Not otherwise, but they discredited Legate's vote. I wouldn't think this too bad for I too raised some eyebrows when I read his vote even though I knew he had had points against her earlier. Still, I'm inclined to think he's not evil.)
- Glirdan (says the bandwagon is ridiculous and asks why get rid of Lottie since she's good at spotting wolves... really, most of us are good at that at our best, and should we lynch those who aren't just to ensure they'll never learn?)
Okay, forgive my slightly personal approach here, but I really think the massive discrediting was slightly weird (and I didn't like it because I can admit I was wrong about Lottie but I don't want to admit I had ridiculous grounds for voting her 'cos I didn't), and can't be all honest (or then some of you guys are a flock of chickens). Looking at this has been helpful for me, though, because now I have some suspects: Greenie, Nog, Zil, Brinn, Shasta, Sally. I bet there are at least one or two wolves among those.
PS. it's interesting Nogrod's very concerned about all the suspicion against Lottie still he is suspicious of her himself...

Fea's vote is so weird she has to be bad.
Skip gave the first vote early on. He grounded his suspicion well although I disagree with what he said.
Nogrod followed, suspecting Fea is sending or receiving cobbler hints. I must say that when I first read his posts I thought he was making mountains out of molehills once again, but it was proven he was right in associating Fea with cobblers (even if he did it for the wrong reasons)!
Brinn is the third, her grounds for voting are mostly the fact that she dislikes Fea's vote (more than suspects it).
Boro votes to save Lottie.
Lottie saves to vote herself.
Conclusions? The fact that Fea got lynched was really random. I don't think we can make much out of this.

Oi! Evil Greenie! Must die!
Shasta starts, says "I don't like bandwagons, I don't like lynching Lottie first constantly, I don't see what's so suspicious about her, and I especially don't like votes made apologetically." People criticised this vote came out of nowhere, but I think it actually has better grounds than many later votes, although I personally disagree with some stuff he says. It's not a very suspicious vote, except maybe exactly because it looks so good and "fresh" and maybe wants to abuse the anti-anti-Lottie mood...
Nienna votes her quite out of the blue, and so does Lottie, who later switches to save herself.
Conclusions? Not much either, would like to hear Nienna's reasoning.


edit: xed with everybody

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, rechecked the votes and also noticed that Boro accompanied his vote with "sorry hun, duty is forcing me to make this choice". Which, basically, is a big note saying "there is something going on here" - although it looks like he said it just to apologize to Fea whom he even might have thought innocent. Anyway, adding two and two together... it's really clear to see now where the WWs were (I'd say almost 99%) coming from.

Otherwise... if I were to assume that there is at least one Wolf in each of the bandwagons, which might as well not be the case, given that Wolves might have been just throwing away votes all over the place and making the village do the bad work... on the other hand, in my experience, the innocents are usually far more straightforward with their votes, i.e. if they have a suspicion, they go for it no matter that nobody else follows them, unlike WWs - of course depending on the particular WW, but I just think it's somehow more likely that way.

Anyway, what was I originally saying. If I had like a gun pointed at me right now and be told "say one name from each bandwaggon", from the Fea bandwaggon, I'd think of either Nogrod or Brinn, as skip who started it sounded reasonable and it was not a bandwaggon yet. Then maybe Brinn more than Nogrod, however I admit I'd have to reread Nog's posts one more time (and Brinn's maybe too, though I think I remember them better as there were less of them), as Nog generally speaks sense (well, Brinn does too, but...) but Brinn seems more "creepy". But in general, I consider both of them quite innocent and reasonable. There is however one important thing to take into account - would the Wolves dare to kill Boro toNight if there was one of them in the Fea bandwaggon? As that'd leave quite a few people, and if somebody took the idea that "now there is a Wolf in Fea's voters, I am sure of it!" there will be quite a large chance for the Wolf there being caught. Not that, on the other hand, there wasn't much of a difference - if Boro was alive and Lottie killed instead, he would probably reveal anyway and thus there will be again only 3 people left. Of course, it all comes down to how much the Wolves did think of at Night, which we can't determine. It could also have been perceived just as a "well, whatever" or "let's do it, we hope that people are not going to examine Fea's voters, thinking that she was a Cobbler so no Wolf voted her" (that would be a rather lame thinking, so I don't assume we have such simple Wolves). In other words, btw, it made me think that this must have been a really baaad Night for the WWs. "This Day went just wrong!" Quite a broken spirit, eh, dear furry stalking friends?

But I think the middle way would make the most sense, that the WWs just did what they had to, and now hoped the Fea voters won't be looked at. Okay, now actually along this train of thought, I have arrived somehow to being more inclined to believe that there might have been a Wolf among Fea voters more probably. If so, then I'd really put my bets on Brinn, as if you look at what she said toDay early, she started assuming a Wolf in Lottie-saving bandwaggon, but she explicitely named Greenie-wagon to be looked at, which could mean downplaying Fea-voters (of whom she is one)... and the more if Greenie was another fellow Wolf of hers.

However, note that this is a theory now made as my thoughts go, following the original premises. As for the other one, Lommy and Greenie are equally good choices for me to find a Wolf in the other bandwaggon if I were to look for it, maybe with having a few more reasons to think Lommy innocent for things she said yesterDay. But anyway, only speculating.

Then there of course would be another, wait, two Wolves among the rest! For that matter, sally's vote's been mentioned yesterDay as somewhat out-of-place and I sort of agree, if nothing else, it was inconsistent with what sally said. It wouldn't be a problem otherwise, but I think Nog or who was it had a point in saying that if sally wanted to save Lottie (resp. create a contest-bandwaggon), she would vote for somebody who already had a vote, and not me who didn't have a vote at all. I don't know if there was much of a chance to lynch me at the point (it didn't seem to me so much), so not sure if I can believe sally's explanation. (And that said, what I said above about innocents sticking to their votes won't certainly apply in this case - as that was not the reason sally stated, she came up with the somewhat strange explanation that she wanted to save Lottie.) Anyway... I am keeping my eye on her now.

Now otherwise, I'd need to look at people again... but I have at least somewhat settled the thoughts for myself.

EDIT: x-ed since my last