Tolkien's Influence on Babylon 5

[Rumil]

Hi Esty,

long time since I saw this one, but really enjoyed the series until all the main characters left.

I had exactly the same thought when the Rangers turned up, especially their Aragorn-style leader (the slightly embarassing chap direct from RADA), and the Minbari are elf-ish if you know what I mean.

So there is a lot of Tolkien-y influence, but in no way a copy, as ther were plenty of stories, characters and races that had no obvious Tolkien parallels. I always thought that Londo Mollari was more Shakespearian and much of his story was inspired by the Roman Empire.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

I recall how, when the series was first airing, some people accused Joe of doing "LotR with the serial numbers filed off." He had much to say about his love of it, that the references were in homage, not plagiarism. I agreed.

That being said, let us not forget Lorien, the first of the old ones, who seems like a combination of several Valar and Eru rolled into one. After a fashion, he takes the self-sacrificed Sheridan "out of thought and time," guides him through "strange paths," and helps him back to life -- but only until his "tasks are finished." Both the Vorlons and the Shadows (who seem in the end more like renegade Ainur, each trying to sway the "Children" to their notion of how the universe should be) defer to him as if he were their father.

I'm quite sure there are other things; I'm just not thinking of them right now (too early in my day).

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Thanks for your replies! It's good to get additional ideas from other B5 fans. I noticed an LotR movie connection, by the way, in the fourth episode of the third season: Brad Dourif plays a major role as a former criminal turned monk - quite different from Gríma Wormtongue.

[davem]

Long discussion here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5_influences. I remember picking up on lots of Tolkien references while watching the series. The 'Technomage' quoting Gildor ('Meddle not in the affairs of wizards...') was the first clue for me & from then on I was watching every episode for more Tolkien references. Happy days. I keep meaning to re-visit the series, but to be honest, its too much of a commitment - & I fear that it won't live up to my memories (same reason I've never gone back to Blake's 7. There is no real going back, is there? )

[Rumil]

Hi Davem,

I know what you mean, I caught an episode of Blakes' 7 on some cable channel and the set-wobbliness and non-special effects weren't exactly as I remembered, likewise some of the old Dr Whos with practically unendurable sound effects. Still, randomly watched The Green Death, from Pertwee era, that was as fun as ever, so sometimes it works out.

I must say I'd like to see Babylon 5 again on DVD as iirc it was on Channel 5 with rough reception first time round, not helped by the dodgy old portable telly I had back then.

OK, so in a valiant attempt to re-Tolkienize the post, has anyone watched the Bakshi cartoon recently? I saw it many years ago on TV. Is it still as rubbish as I remember?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Thanks for that link, davem! That certainly sums up not only the Tolkien references, but also a good many of the others. It also shows that though there are parallels, there is no direct copying of characters or plot elements. In that respect JMS is like Tolkien, who spoke of the cauldron of story, with the various ingredients bringing their flavour to the soup.

I can understand your apprehension of going back to something and being disappointed. It can happen, but I am finding that rewatching B5 is quite the opposite - I can now appreciate the depths of the story and dialogues even more than at first viewing. Also, for me, living in a country in which virtually every TV show and movie is dubbed before it reaches us, I am tremendously enjoying hearing the original voices and dialogues on DVD.

As to the CGI effects, they may be 15 years old and no longer state-of-the-art, but I think they look good enough not to disturb the flow of the story, and the latter is what matters to me.

I hope the Wikipedia list will not discourage others from posting their personal impressions of Tolkien influences on B5 - please continue!

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Slicker technology doesn't necessarily equate to a better all around final product. As proof of that to myself, I just spent ten minutes typing in a reply on my iPad, only to accidentally touch a wrong spot on the screen and entirely lose what I had typed. For me, the special effects in B5 that are the worst to watch are the ones that weren't very good to begin with. Joe's stories are invariably character and plot driven; the effects are there to support them; they do not overwhelm to the point where they drive the story to accommodate vast amounts of special effects. I cannot say the same of other directors *cough* Jackson *cough* who become so wrapped up in the spectacle of what can be done with CGI, they abandon a perfectly good story and characters to the mercies of FX. I have long wished that Joe had been the one to adapt LotR for the big screen, because he had already proved his skill in dealing respectfully with the work of others (and IMHO, he already had more love for and respect of Tolkien's works). But that's another kettle of fish. The series still views quite well.

It occurs to me that my earlier analogy of Lorien as Eru/Valar can be drawn more broadly to encompass much of the structure of B5. The Vorlons and Shadows are like the Ainur, attempting to guide the younger races to their own purposes for good or evil. The Minbari are much like the Elves, the Firstborn, who went to war against the evil Ainur, the Shadows, long ago, and only survived because of the intervention of a human who became an Elf (Minbari -- I'd never thought of Valen/Sinclair as Earendil before, but I can see some influences).

And let us never forget that "It was the Third Age of Mankind." That hit me over the head right from the get-go.