'Elven Music in Our Times', Mira Sommer

[Faramir Jones]

Mark, thanks for the links to the materials you mentioned, which I enjoyed reading very much.

I suppose all of us have our own definitions of 'Elvishness' that might overlap a lot, but are very rarely going to be exactly the same; so it's interesting for me to read where people have found what they feel are 'elements of Elvishness in music'.

I agree that Tolkien would have enjoyed 'some of the music that has come out'. The problem, as you correctly pointed out, is that any decision we make about what music he might have enjoyed is affected by our personal biases.

Do you think that Tolkien's sanctioning of Donald Swan's interpretation of his works made it easier for later interpretations to be accepted by some fans?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

[B]Do you think that Tolkien's sanctioning of Donald Swan's interpretation of his works made it easier for later interpretations to be accepted by some fans?

Yes I do; precisely because Donald Swan's interpretation doesn't contain a harp or a lute, but (gasp) a piano, and a piano played very much in drawing-room style. I doubt we would have found a piano even in Rivendell. (Gondolin??) (Aman???) But if Tolkien could enjoy Swan's piano, perhaps other instruments might also be used besides those specifically mentioned in use by elven minstrels.

(Considering Daeron and Tinfang Warble, why so few flutes? Lingalad rules!)

Had I not heard piano played by Donald Swan, and blessed by The Prof, would I have accepted "The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green" by the Tolkien Ensemble? The piano works beautifully there. (And then once I wonder what growing up in Rivendell might have done to a young ranger's voice, Tolkien Ensemble's 'Voice of Aragorn' works better and better. )

Do I owe that to Swan? Perhaps. A very intriguing thought.

[Faramir Jones]

Mark, I particularly liked what you said here:

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Had I not heard piano played by Donald Swan, and blessed by The Prof, would I have accepted "The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green" by the Tolkien Ensemble? The piano works beautifully there. (And then once I wonder what growing up in Rivendell might have done to a young ranger's voice, Tolkien Ensemble's 'Voice of Aragorn' works better and better. )

Do I owe that to Swan? Perhaps. A very intriguing thought.

I haven't heard the piece you mentioned, but, like you, have accepted for the same reasons the use of the piano in versions of Tolkien's songs and poems.

In terms of what Aragorn's upbringing in Rivendell might have done to his voice, that's an intriguing line of enquiry. Another example of a Man fostered by an Elvish ruler was Túrin, fostered by Thingol. While we know how badly things turned out there, the influence of this upbring was such that, later in Nargothrond, he was called Adanedhel, 'Elf-Man', because his speech and bearing were that of the Kingdom of Doriath.

[mark12_30]

The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green: Song of Beren And Luthien

Berit Johansen

There are samples for the rest of the album as well.

Including The Ent and the Ent-Wife.

Unfortunately I can't find a link for Lebennin.

Song of Gondor

[Faramir Jones]

Mark, thanks for those links! I found the samples of music, including the ones you mentioned, well worth listening to.

[Nogrod]

This sure is something different and it might be something of just my imagination, but I have always thought this to be the real elvish music.

Rule of thumb concerning the link: at 0.40 it becomes really elvish (with the wind instrument coming in, a clarinet I presume), at about 1.40 it gets some air and finally from 2.10 onwards it starts to be what I think it should be - as elvish music. (Anouar Brahem is a Tunisian oud-player.)

I know this can be debated, but that's my idea of elvish music... making everything in Middle-Earth just Irish/ wanna-be Celtic or medieval catholic might go well with what we presume the prof. was as as a child of his times. But looking at his knowledge of different cultures I can't but think that we make a diservice to his legacy by limiting our imagination to just the Western tradition.

Had Tolkien heard of this...

[Bêthberry]

That's an interesting idea and link, Nogrod. (Celtic I don't think need be limited to elven music, but could also apply to the The Shire, especially with folk dances.)

I think I can catch a haunting sense of reverie in the music, but I'd be interested in hearing what it is in Brahem's music that makes you think of elven music.