WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. Going on with this scenario of yours that I was a wolf... You're contradicting yourself and good sense when you try to maintain that she was at the same time the most careful - not leaving any hints on whom she had dreamt of to ensure no one could think her the seer - and at the same time she would have revealed her wolf-dream as her top suspicion and plain ignoring the possibility the wolves might get her the next Night for it...

If I was a wolf, I wouldn't call her posting on me yesterDay "trying to hide from the wolves". But it would be "not helping the innocents at all" as she didn't then leave any known innocent and took the risk of losing last Night's dream by exposing herself to the wolves. So she exposed herself to the wolves but told nothing to the innocents?

This makes sense in a way, however, of course one must ask the fundamental question once again, why did the Wolves do what they did if it wasn't so. Back to my thoughts early in the Day, the options do not seem to be too many. In any case, if Nogrod is lynched and he turns out to be innocent, I will be turning back to the situation how it was before toDay, i.e. looking at those who were suspected back then. As if we rule out the possibility of the Wolves knowing Greenie was the Seer, I really cannot imagine other reasons for killing her than creating the confusion, framing Nogrod and leading us away from the trail.

Anyway, my main dilemma toDay is simply whether to join lynching Nogrod - and therefore getting part of the answers to the above - or to believe in the other of the possibilities and lynch one of the other suspects, in my case Inzil. However as I am not sure how much the other makes sense right now and considering that I have been slightly unsure about Inzil's guilt for a few reasons (see earlier toDay), it might as well be Nogrod. Even though I am wondering if his defense is not that of a genuine innocent.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright. I'm here for a few minutes, but I've... tarts to steal (read: final dress rehearsal tonight) so I won't be here at deadline.

Right now my vote will probably be for Nogrod. I've seen Nog come down hard on the "frustrated innocent" defense (and been on the receiving end of such ) to buy it from him this time. Plus, he hasn't (at least I haven't seen it... if you have, correct me, Nog) responded at all to the point I made earlier in the day against him, about his vote for Glirdan that contradicted his previous stance on "easy lynches".

Now, Legate -

Originally Posted by Legate

Morsul this far does not seem suspicious to me. He has been acting more or less like his innocent self, and the possible slip of all things is not very convincing to me either (I mean, I can see Morsul making a mistake like that without it being a slip).

It is interesting nevertheless, you sort of made me now imagine the interesting idea of Morsul fooling us (or me) all the time, because he really seemed "normal" to me.

I don't like this post much. Especially since I'm suspicious of Morsul (and agree totally with Skip, here)

Originally Posted by Skip

Maybe he figures that by being his incoherent self and voting early, sometimes for his fellow wolves, he might just soldier on as a minor but harmless disturbance?

I could see Morsul doing just that on the basis of "it's worked before" (which he's already admitted to basing his actions on anyway ), and your post looks like you're dismissing suspicion of Morsul off-hand.

My only problem is that Nog is a likely wolf, so you can't be wolves together.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Yes, Nog, I can do that with three of the same quotes you just used. Let me just change the bolding around, shall I?

Originally Posted by Greenie

Agan is lovely and provides a lot of substance (I'd raise my hat if I had one, unfortunately I only wear a helmet), I don't suspect her - but then, I always suspect her when she's innocent, so maybe she's a wolf now. Gah, I'm flip-flopping. Family vice. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Agan – Seems genuine and makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying she's innocent - I know how capable she is of fooling me - but I won't be voting her without a good reason.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Aganzir
A sensible point, could well have been by an innocent Agan, but the phrasing of the underlined part struck me as slightly fishy – it's too careful (maybe, a bit), not much like Agan's usual provocative style.


This, in turn, looks okay.

Could well be a wolf assuring that the death of a fellow would be okay while not enforcing the suspicion on her.

This strikes me as genuine innocent reasoning, though. Agan is driving me mad.

I'm not saying you're obviously, insanely wrong, Nogrod, but calling my remark dishonest is pushing it a bit much, don't you think?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Right now my vote will probably be for Nogrod. I've seen Nog come down hard on the "frustrated innocent" defense (and been on the receiving end of such ) to buy it from him this time. Plus, he hasn't (at least I haven't seen it... if you have, correct me, Nog) responded at all to the point I made earlier in the day against him, about his vote for Glirdan that contradicted his previous stance on "easy lynches".

Okay, if Nog turns out innocent, I will also remember this, Shastaggoning for Nogrod?

Anyway, as for voting, I am not feeling as comfortable as earlier. Of course after two Wolves being lynched it is not any big deal yet. But nevertheless, I think I will be probably voting Nogrod. It also makes sort of the most sense. Even though I would assume him to put up a bit more fight as a Wolf. Argh.

Now I was basically just sitting here and thinking for a few minutes. Okay, let me see if a sudden stroke of brilliance shines on me or if I crossposted with somebody clever, then I vote and go to sleep.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Leaving, have to vote now.

++Nogrod

[Morsul the Dark]

Doing through noticed this

Skip:
That doesn't seem like a thing that would prevent someone from checking up on the thread, him being in his own flat and all.

(Reffering to my kitchen painting)

Skip if you only knew how easily distracted I am that kitchen would never be finished if I checked up on the downs

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul

Either the voters are using their one time retractable votes in silly posts(therefore wasting them) or they'll later say when voting an innocent "I realized they were innocent After voting but could do nothing about it...sorry.

Either way I find the votes meaningless and suspect.

Other than that have 3 minutes till I leave for work won't get much done today I'll be on for an hour later at which point I'll have to vote.

Dislikes people using their retractables so early, finds the votes "meaningless". Huh?

Originally Posted by Morsul

Legate I love you for actually getting my point even if you disagree

Have to read more in depth though have to vote shortly.

And why am I always classified with "Knee-Jerk" reactions? I see something I form a hypothesis everyone calls it "knee-jerk" I call it Scientific method

Taughtus Taught us that!

ok reading

One of many "why me" posts. No real content.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Had this argument last time maybe I should do this "so and so "FEELS" off" somehow acceptable me seeing something I find odd and pointing it out that's weird?

Anywho... No one pops out want to vote agan... but won't because That Would be knee jerk... I do have to vote soon though

(Responding to post 80 forgot to quote it.)
__________________

Wants support for voting Agan. More TIP syndrome (taking it personal).

Originally Posted by Morsul

First post vote followed by "Day one who cares?" then a bit of the Tweedles poem.

++WintyWinty

Throws away his vote on Winty the newbie.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Let's all use our retractable votes so if a wold happens to trick us we're done. With my track record I'm saving mine

Intends to keep his retraction.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Plans? I have none last few times it came down to my vote I made the wolves win, I'm going to try Not to repeat that

No content. I will point out, Morsul, that your last vote did that because you voted not two hours after the day started. Just saying.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Agan changed Avatars mid-game Obviously Evil!!!!(Joking)

Jokingly suspects Agan. Not-so-jokingly looked for support for her lynch earlier, though.

#223 - no content - not quoting.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Boro voted Glirdan then changed to Fea.(An example of a well used retraction by the way)

Methinks either Glirdan is suspiciou or the wolves picked the person who pushed their cobbler friend over the edge.or they considered it the least traceable.

Suggests reasoning for Boro-kill.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Maybe Lottie is the other Sherriff? Boro switched votes to save her?

Nothing suspicious here.

Originally Posted by Morsul

I'm Fairly certain I won't be on before DL today so I always suspect Sally however Lotties Post was nicely confirming

++Sally

If I can I MAY have to use my retraction today if I'm back in time.

However Sally is quite smart whether or not I agree with her. I don't think she'd read my sarcasm as anything but, also she says she wanted to try and get me lynched but "no one would go for that" She admits trying to start a Bandwagon.

Have fun I'll Try to be on later.

Opportunistic vote with suspicious reasons. Don't like it.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Popping in for one post while waiting for my fiance to return.

I voted because I thought it'd be the only time I could. Second... well there is no second.

No content.

#356 has no content either.

Originally Posted by Morsul

you did insult me you called me a lemming sorry the tone in my post was off as well. I knoew what you meant I had nothing to add but that

And for the record every time I try to defend myself everyone says "WOAH Over the top response must be a Wolf"

Though I'm not changing my vote I like the tone of Sally's defenses(I just don't believe them)

Sally I got your back... sort of

Which in itself seems overdefensive. Also, very weak, but could that last bit be a wolf-Morsul apologizing for bussing a teammate?

#381 has no content.

Originally Posted by Morsul

This Post has been buzzing through my head All Day...

If Glirdan's innocent and we lynched him we'd just lynch Sally today... So what pay off would there be to lie? To last One more day?

I think Glirdan's a wolf... Sally I think was planning a False Seer reveal, just look at this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by satansaloser2005 View Post
Inzil: Not a wolf. Plain and simple. Don't ask me how I know, I just do.
The move only makes sense to gain our trust... Gaining one day isn't worth it. I mean 4 out of 16.... 3 out of 16 still gives us lots of time still I just don't see a one day gain worth it.

I sort of agree here, about Sally and the possible false-Seer-reveal, but he fails to mention it would also out the real Seer if it only gave one more day to a Sallywolf. Also, suspects Glirdan early on a bit here.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Yeah but Inzil I think a false seer reveal would gain her more time than the one day gained from the lynch.

I don't understand the motivation otherwise.

This post makes me think I might have misinterpreted the previous post. Morsul, care to clarify?

[quote=I know this will be an unpopular move however I'm going with my gut on this one.

++Glirdan

It got me one wolf so maybe It'll get me another.[/quote]

This vote looks more opportunistic than the Sally-vote. Also it's another early vote.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Only here for a minute I voted Early because I keep colliding badly with the times of the game I'm usually free all night phase and have maybe an hour or so during the day normally at the beginning.

"It" means going with my gut. Also like to point out I still have me retractable. If I didn't I might not have voted at all This way If I see something I can change... Hasn't happened yet. I'm 95% sure of this vote. I really Really Can figure out any other way Sally's vote and cry to Nienna makes sense.

Lastly I'm rushing this post... To the person who said they'd eat their hat if Nienna and I were Pack mates Don't worry your Hat shall remain in tact.

See you all tomorrow(Maybe)

RL reasons for voting early. Not much suspicious here, I think.

#559 is expressing sadness over Greenie's death.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Moving away from Greenie for the moment...


I was shocked by the pick if I do say so myself not to toot my own horn I was sure I was going to be the victem to days in a row with the right vote... That NEVER happens for me(I'm excited) keep it alive folks!

I'm looking into Agan this is going to be a looong loong post coming up... sorry

Generally if you're starting a phrase with "not to toot my own horn, but..." it's probably a good idea not to use said phrase. Anyway. Starts "looking at" Agan again.

Originally Posted by Morsul

I don't suspect her that's the point I was fully prepared to vote Greenie today.

I need to look at people I don't suspect. Agan sprang to mind.

"her" refers to Greenie. I'm confused - so you were fully prepared to vote Greenie even though you didn't suspect her? Also, what's this about not suspecting Agan? *looks up*

Originally Posted by #568

keep alive folks is "wolfy"? really three days cobbler wolf wolf youd Don't want to keep that trend alive?

Defends himself and his comment.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Why'd I say it? because I'm psyched this is the furthest I've ever made it on the winning side in WW I said it more for myself...

Defends the same comment.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Agan 37

Wow that's a long post.

Defends Winty from Nerwen... calls Nerwen suspicious for asking a reasonable question. Talks about wolf strategies.

Agan 55 Seriously... Take the keyboard away from Agan!

Another long post. boils down to a lot of not much. I still think he want's everyone to get rid of their votes... I t just seems bad what if we Need them later? no one has "Extra" votes this time retractables are an excellent tool, for us and yes sadly for the wolves but with only two wolves left it's even better for us to have them.

Agan 62

List. Most Likely to vote me.... These three show an odd trend however Each One mentions a slip-up maybe She keeps saying something like "Wow I'm glad no one thought I was a wolf for that." As if relieved no one picked up on her mess up.... but only three posts not enough to worry about yet.

By the way While I'm writing this I have another tab going checking on whats going on real time. Shasta thinks Agan was dreamed... Well She May have been but how would we Know that? I think someone's trying to get me to look somewhere else as is Lottie. Now all three can't be evil but One may be

Agan 80

Agan keeps talking about Cobbler appearing "innocent" to seers... I've never known this rule/idea. Seems to want us to not entirely trust our seer granted this point after Fea's lynching is moot it is still strange to advocate. Oh and real quick I'd like to point out 2 wolf votes maybe my logic Does work sometimes!

Agan 88

Mostly response to me. First off thanks for calling me Lazy, That was pretty cool of you. Second I take these games too seriously if I'm "Half Hearted it's because This time around I'm trying to have fun, which I am. Lastly uses retractable taking own advice good move.

110

Quote:
Imagine some innocents, a couple of wolves. The innocents have used (most of) their retractions, the wolves haven't. The wolves can vote for whomever is the most convenient for them and then, when most other votes have been given, unite and direct their votes towards an innocent who is lynched, and nobody else can do anything. Because I can see that scenario, I'd rather eliminate it before the wolves have even a chance to try it.
That's why you keep it and not use it. Though it seems Sally used hers as well maybe have their pack-mates keep theirs while trying to get the rest of us to use ours?

247 At this point she's using a lot of 'Yeah I'm a wolf ha ha' lines in some of her posts too many for my comfort as Sally said wolves can hide behind these jokes and she's bee using them a lot.

I'd like to point out Lottie has Agan Greeni Glirdan and Sally as the wolves Ok Greenie is wrong but the other two are right... So agan this is a very very Small point against you tiny (It won't be a vote maker don't worry.)

249 rebukes Lottie... good show...

At this point Agan is on the fence for me. I won't vote her unless I see something amazing in the rest of her posts.

252
Suspects Inzil for listening to him... Another Argument I've had. Why do we bother listing reasons unless we expect to persuade anyone? Why am I doing this post? Sure I could look through say "Hey agan's cleared/guilty(let you know when I'm done)" Then everyone would say "where's your reasoning?" I read other peoples' analyses and like their reasons so I I take that was a reason to vote. I'm sorry about the way I do things.

This isn't only Agan's view but I find it all too common.

281

I really don't like the way Agan's going after people who haven't used their retractions seems to be an easy way to pick off people and have her dream scenario of only wolves having theirs left.

285

Line she does something she condemns others for she take's nienna's word and changes suspicion. I'm Opportunistic Lazy a Horrible Person should be lynched right now and so what I voted for two wolves so what obviously I some horrible person.... (Sorry, Serenity NOW)

489

Last Paragraph agains says she put Sally as supicious based only on what others said isn't that terrible thing to do Agan... "Do as I say not as I do?"

511
1 Am I'm really sleepy... Look I Can't find anything outside of some name calling I feel unfairly towards me I can't find anything Agan is cleared in my mind....


Nerwen Tomorrow... or later today whatever time it is...She's always under my radar.

Agan is cleared in your eyes? Are you sure we're looking at the same post?

Originally Posted by Morsul

Lottie
Quote:
1. And you said Agan was rude!
Should have added a smilie I meant it jokingly I didn't call her lazy. However point taken I apologize.

Again I keep saying it because I'm excited I never list reasons why I voted the way I did? I did list them. I found Sally suspicious and after reading I believe your analysis it seemed confirmed. I voted Glirdan because of Sally's post it made NO sense any other way for me. and Winty voted because of a first post vote followed by "Day 1 who cares"

Defends the same comment a third time. Also, I don't think you can classify yourself as a newbie anymore, Morsul.

#591 has no content.

#592 also has no content.

Originally Posted by Morsul

It doesn't say sees "Innocent or Wolf" it says "Their ROLE" Why wouldn't we trust a seers dream Agan... Sorry I'm back on that because I just went through the rules it was bugging me.

and Lottie I feel a challenge there... a wolf saying "I'm beyond suspicion come get me. Of course with no counter reveal I suppose I'll have to trust you.

Lastly I voted first for both wolves... If I knew they would get the most votes for the day I'd be A) psychic and B) insane for offering them up for slaughter.

Still looking at Nerwen.

Tries throwing suspicion onto Lottie?! Also, the defense in this post makes entirely no sense.

#595 gets a big "huh"? from me.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Painting my kitchen today so no time.

++Shasta

Quote:
Quote:
ME: So Feas was a cobbler yay us.
Shasta: Something that bothers me is that Lottie has been pouncing on her four suspects for "acting too innocent", but misses this completely. Lottie, I realize you're a known innocent, but really? Just because you think you've spotted all four wolves in the first day doesn't mean you stop looking at anyone else and focus solely on those four. For example, several of the points in your "Sal-alysis" are pretty clearly grasping at straws.
grasping at straws this isn't?

Quote:
Like I said... day 2 easy lynch. With Morsul being opportunistic and Winty being bandwaggonish (going to get reasons for your votes from your packmates tonight, winty?), it's kind of hard to choose, but...
++Morsul
Gave my reasons.

473 and 474 backpeddles pretty quick

534 votes greenie...

Have fun! I need a WW break so I probably won't be back before DL(Sometimes you have to put the computer down.)

No, it's not "grasping at straws". *irritated*

-------------

Conclusion - I think Morsul looks furry.

[Morsul the Dark]

Wintywinty – not guilty... voted day 1 but haven't seen anything beond that

Mira – Last of the Tea Party possibly guilty

Agan – Innocent

Shasta – Probably guilty

Lottie – innocent

Nerwen – The devil wears prada

Legate – no idea

Morsul – Innocent...Ordo... and backup lynch if need be

Skip – Innocent

Lommy – Hopefully innocent

Brinniel – no idea

[Morsul the Dark]

Ok obviously my grammar needs a bit of work... I wasn't comparing myself to Winty I was stating my reason for voting him... Lottie said I gave no reasons so I threw out the reasons I voted my votes.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hey, Lottie, you've listed Skip in two different categories.

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. Really he could go in either category for me, so I put him in both intending to put him in one or the other in the end, but forgot. Although to be honest, that really does best illistrate how I think of him, so meh.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Wintywinty – not guilty... voted day 1 but haven't seen anything beond that

Mira – Last of the Tea Party possibly guilty

Agan – Innocent

Shasta – Probably guilty

Lottie – innocent

Nerwen – The devil wears prada

Legate – no idea

Morsul – Innocent...Ordo... and backup lynch if need be

Skip – Innocent

Lommy – Hopefully innocent

Brinniel – no idea

What the hey is this?? IC banter on Day 5? The devil wears prada? What does that even mean? How does this help anything? It doesn't even make sense!

However...let's throw a little wrench in the bandwaggon.

Morsul probably is not furry. If he was Sally's packmate, they'd seriously both vote Wilwa Day 1 for putting them through this. They do NOT work well together in the least. Morsul wouldn't even play in the same game as her last game.

I have no idea whatsoever what he was thinking when he voted for himself, but it could easily be innocent. *grumbles*

EDIT: xed since Morsul's vote.

[Nerwen]

#236
Believes Loslote's claim. Result of lynch fairly good. Thinks it likely at least one wolf would have been trying to save Lottie (this was true).


#277
winty's stated reason for voting her absurd, but probably just newbie-ish-ness. Agrees with me that we shouldn't ignore Lottie-voters either. Skip and Nog "seem reasonable so far". Ask Lommy to back up her claim that there were actually good reasons to vote Loslote.


#408
Now understands what Lommy meant, but disagrees. Greenie's vote ill-reasoned, but not necessarily wolfish. Nienna and Shasta look somewhat bad for their Day One votes. Responds to Aganzir, who pointed out that there was no apparent way winty could have known Brinn's reputation: says winty has now admitted making it up, and still thinks him just a n00b. Doesn't like Mira's vote for winty. Agrees Sally is suspicious, and can understand why people are voting her (Sally had five votes at this point). Unlikely all Lottie's suspects are wolves. Izzy and I are under her radar.

Comments: Failure to take advantage of winty looks good, sudden late suspicion of Sally– whom she had never mentioned before– looks a bit dubious.


#413
Votes Sally (6) "for reasons stated above".


#416
Agrees with Glirwolf that wintywinty "really hasn't made much of an improvement from yesterDay" and might be a wolf, but doesn't really think so.


#418. Asks if deadline was extended.


#427. Had missed the post about extended deadline.


General comments: Nothing really suspicious here either. The only things that do worry me slightly are the overall careful and bland tone of Brinn's posting, and the fact that she showed no sign of suspecting Sally (unless I missed something) until the latter had five votes.

Sallywolf says here that she has "no worries" about Brinn and Nogwolf singles Sally's trust of Brinn and Zil (innocent) out to comment on. If Sally was indeed planning to play the Seer, this would tend to support Brinn's innocence.

EDIT:X'd since my last post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well that was not just *somebody* clever, that was our very Moddess

But I'll tell you what, I have this irrational feeling to actually vote for Shasta and just be gone. However that said, I haven't been reading his posts at all with any deep insight and I honestly don't have a clue. And it would be so random. Okay! Let's do it, I am going to actually go very quickly through his posts just to have the peace of mind after reading them (or not). Urgh.

EDIT: okay, x-ed with more, actually Shasta himself.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, it brought some new questions and stuff, but I cannot really focus on that anymore. It brought at least sort-of peace of mind in the sense that I have sort of confirmed to myself that there is only one sensible way for me to vote now. And if nothing else, it is sort of giving Greenie's yesterDay's vote and suspicion of Nogrod a support post mortem. If she ever dreamt of a Wolf, it was most likely him.

++Nogrod

Good night, people.

[Inziladun]

As I did with Glirdan, I have the feeling this is too easy.
However:

1. I didn't like Nog's nitpicking me on Day 1 about my comments on ww's vote.

2. Greenie voting him 'just because he's Nog' would seem more likely to me for a Day 1 vote from her, not a Day 3. It seems odd that she would have singled him out like that for no reason when there were seemingly better candidates, which was why I suspected she might be a wolf.

3. I don't have any better ideas at the moment.

4. I have to leave now, and I probably won't make it back before DL.

++Nog

[Nogrod]

(~~~) *grin appearing*

Sorry. I have been writing the Arda Cup 10 game results and now need to pull off to sleep.

Originally Posted by Legate

And if nothing else, it is sort of giving Greenie's yesterDay's vote and suspicion of Nogrod a support post mortem. If she ever dreamt of a Wolf, it was most likely him.

If she had dreamt of a wolf wouldn't she have told us so? I still don't get this logic you all (well most of you talking the last few hours) seem to cherish.

Let me put this theory bluntly: If Greenie dreamt of a Wolfgrod, then she knew he would kill her. So why didn't she reveal openly, thus telling everyone who the innocents are (so who we should not vote in the future) and secure her one more dream?

A seer doesn't fool the innocents, she tries to fool the wolves. But if the theory you are bringing forwards is true it means Greenie revealed herself to the baddies but didn't give any hints to the goodies.

Just how probable you think that is?


Anyway. Bedtime for me.

Heh, I remember you Brinn making something like an argument on my placement of my vote earlier. You know what, I need to go to sleep and I can't control when the other people make their votes... I think Lommy made quite a reasonable rant on the issue already. Sadly we Europeans can't just choose to hang on or to tactically vote "early". 4.30AM is about the most devillish DL there is.

So I will vote for either Shasta or Aganzir (I could go with Lommy as well). The two look like possible pals. Agan just looking too happy to get an innocent lynched with a general support and not making an effort to consider. So a wolf who just loves what is going on and cares not? Shasta was making that totally weird point of Agan being dreamt of by Greenie. There is no way you can honestly make that interpretation from Greenie's posts (as you can check form the quotes). So there is another agenda there? Is it that you try to help Agan or you just try to butter up with her?

I'll go with

++ Shasta

If I'd to have one more Day to make my best (as I have time then) then Shasta is my best bet as he already has two votes. But also I could say that with the two of them, Agan and Shasta, it is easier to see him as trying to play it for the mate. With Agan it might be that she was just lazy. (Well, were she just lazy, she wouldn't have been that comfortable... you know, wolves can be comfortable with lynches as they know the role of the one who is lynched, we innocents can't be that comfortable).

But Shasta's defence of Agan-dream by Greenie is just plain false so he is either a fool or false. I don't think he's a fool so I must conclude he is false.


Blah.

Seeing the latest votes... thanks so much friends. I really appreciate your attentiviness. But as you said, we can afford the mislynch. So no major harm done, even if I don't exactly like it.

Sadly you're not going to be able to read anything from the votes from toDay if the voting continues like this.

Morsul -> Shasta
Agan -> Nogrod
Lommy -> Nogrod (2)
Skip -> Shasta (2)
Shasta -> Nogrod (3)
Legate -> Nogrod (4)
Inziladun -> Nogrod (5)
Brinn -> Nogrod (6)
Nogrod -> Shasta (3)


It's 6-3 between me and Shasta now and if I counted it right it's 5 votes to come.

Your choice.

(~~~) *grin vanishing*

[wintywinty]

*falls from horse*

Did the rules say we have to play mad instead of just having a WW game in a mad setting? Seriously, this is one of the oddest Day 1 beginnings I have ever seen. I dislike the votes so far, though that isn't to say anything on whether they are necessarily signs of wolvery or not.

My contribution toDay will be pretty much horrible - this is the worst possible day for me to be playing Werewolf - but I promise to be much more active in the Days to come! I've got to dash, but I'll return later. Try to be sensible, meanwhile. (It's easy for me to say, of course, given that I won't be around for most of toDay.. )

Greenie gives reasons for little activity.

*falls from horse*
Back again! I'm feeling slightly hyper right now, so don't be annoyed if I'm not making much sense.. But here come some impressions of toDay.

Originally Posted by Mira
wintywinty's vote is more suspicious. I do agree with whoever suggested it might be of a wolfish nature and xe was told to act newbieish to allay suspicion. Or it could be a newbie mistake. People do tend to follow Fea for no reason.
I don't see Winty's vote as suspicious - nor innocent-looking, for that matter - it just is. Meaning that s/he (which is it, by the way?) could have done that just as well as a wolf as an innocent, and thus drawing conclusions on that seems weird to me. But then, everything here is weird.

Agan is lovely and provides a lot of substance (I'd raise my hat if I had one, unfortunately I only wear a helmet), I don't suspect her - but then, I always suspect her when she's innocent, so maybe she's a wolf now. Gah, I'm flip-flopping. Family vice. Sorry.

Lottie's analysis post was interesting, but I found the "gut feeling"-thing slightly eyebrow-raising. The so-called gut feelings were mostly reasoned points, so why call them gut feelings? It just struck me that calling a point a mere gut feeling kind of lessens the responsibility over it - one can, later, claim it was just a gut feeling, not my fault that we lynched an innocent, whoops.

Lommy is acting purposefully mysterious which strikes me as weird - she's having this manner of "I know something you others don't, let's see if I care to share it!" I don't quite know what to make of it, it's not usual her but then I'm not sure if it's necessarily suspicious either.

Okay, enough ranting, I don't remember if I had something to say about someone else still, so I'll let Lommy post and go to sleep and then do the same myself. Back soon babes!

Doesn’t see my earlier post as suspicious, sees Agan as innocent, thinks Lommy is suspicious.

Originally Posted by Lommy
Darling, I already explained it.
Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottiewill become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

++ Lottie
Votes for Lottie, but hopes she won’t become an easy Day 1 lynch?

Phew. Here at last, been running all day and now it's getting late again. I so wish the Day and Night phases were the other way round... So if I seem to be over-reacting (I fear I am) it's because I'm tired. This will be a mostly self-defensive post. The next one will include something rather more relevant to the game, I hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie
So then, Greenie. Her vote post was apologetic, she voted when I was starting to lead the votes (prime bandwaggon spot) and claimed not to have any real reason. If there is a wolf among these four, and I think there is, I'd bet it's Greenie.
Seriously, I know being annoyed won't exactly help a thing, but I can't but be a tad annoyed. What, exactly, are your reasons for suspecting me? I suspected you yesterDay and happened to get the internet after Lommy (we're using the same one) so I voted you only after some others had done that already. That, I suppose, made my vote bandwaggonish. I had a reason to suspect you, I didn't have reason to suspect anyone else, so I voted you. Simple as that. And I think I had voiced my suspicion of you before the bandwagon against you had even started, so you can't claim my vote was just jumping on the bandwagon. As for the apologetic tone of my vote post, I was being honest. It did pop into my mind that I might be pursuing what would turn out a typical Day 1 easy lynch. I made the mistake of saying it aloud – if I had just played more confident than I was no one would have made such a fuss about my vote. Give me better arguments, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nienna
votes Lottie (3rd vote) with what she knows is outrageously bad reasoning
Not quite! Outrageously bad phrasing, more like. The outrageously bad had to do with that I was kind of worried about a typical easy Day 1 lynch, but still wanted to vote for Lottie who I suspected. My reasons for voting Lottie, while not all that great, were still substantial by Day 1 standards.
Greenie defends herself from Lottie attacks for voting Lottie
Originally Posted by Lottie
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

[*highlight]++ Lottie[/highlight*]
Oh, so not outrageously bad reasoning?
Yeah. I was referring to the reasoning that I'm afraid of a typical Day 1 easy lynch but still vote for you. My actual reasoning for suspecting you wasn't outrageously bad. If I still can't make this understood, I suppose I must blame being a non-native speaker for not being able to explain myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mira
Unless I missed something, I wouldn't call not liking gut feelings a valid point.
You did miss something. It was that she called every point she had a gut-feeling, also those that were actual reasoned points and not gut-feelings - which struck me as horribly fishy. But really, discussing this is not fruitful as far as I can see.

Now to write some actual substance. I'm sick of talking about myself.
Greenie once again defending herself for day 1 actions.
Originally Posted by Nienna
I was pretty confident at that point that Lottie was innocent and was willing to vote for mostly anyone to save her.
Okay, but why were you pretty confident about her?
Quote:
Originally Posted by winty
and if they do not say they are the next time they post, Lottie's statement must be true, and we can assume that everything she says in the best interest of the villagers.
Yes, I think we can rather safely assume that Lottie has the village's best interests at heart. But she is not the seer. She doesn't know anybody's role and can be as wrong as any of us.

Eurgh I had some other quotes I wanted to comment on but it seems I've lost them. Off to write a list and then vote. I'll probably be suspected for voting out of the blue this time ( ) because I don't have much of an idea until I've looked at the list of villagers and considered each one in turn.
Gives two clues for Greenie being the seer, saying Lottie is not the seer, and that she will probably be suspected for voting out of the blue, which indicates that perhaps the next vote is someone she dreamed about, but is not someone many expect… Just an idea.
Originally Posted by Lottie
No, I get what you mean now.
Ok, great. Really, I'm sorry if I've sounded cross, I'm just very very tired and it's very very late and I've been up since rather early morning.
Just responding to Lottie
Glirdan – Hmm. I have no read on him myself, others have brought up good points against him, though, but I'd have to investigate myself to form an opinion.

Nogrod – Usually, at this point of the game, I'm convinced he's a wolf. This far I guess he's never been one when we've played together. So now I'm wondering if I should get worried as I've found no reason to suspect him...

Wintywinty – Too little to go on with.

Isabellkya – From what I remember of her she's been making sense and passing unnoticed. I have no reason to suspect her, but she alarms me a little because of being so smooth and sensible.

Mira – Feels innocent though I disagree with her a lot.

Sally – Her behaviour yesterDay around the voting, concerning Lottie, was weird. Other than that, she's been the usual hard-to-read Sally.

Agan – Seems genuine and makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying she's innocent - I know how capable she is of fooling me - but I won't be voting her without a good reason.

Inzil – No effing idea.

Shasta – The reasoning for his vote was rather bad, could be even wolvish - I was a little (green) suspected at that point I think but not much, so voting for me would have been rather ideal: not rubbing people the wrong way, yet not bandwaggoning either. Otherwise he has flown under my radar.

Lottie – I believe her claim though I disagree with her about almost everything.

Nerwen – No idea.

Legate – Seems innocentish this far.

Morsul – No idea.

Nienna – Hmm. Not sure. At times she feels very genuine, at others she feels like a sneaky wolf. Can't say which she is.

Skip – Seems maybe the most innocentish at this point (discounting Lottie and myself, of course), makes sense and feels genuine.

Lommy – Has dropped the mysterious attitude and feels more or less like her innocent self.

Brinniel – I'm leaning towards thinking her innocent. Her reactions seem genuine to me.

Ok, Greenie did not dream of Glirdy, because she says “I’d have to investigate him myself, aka dream of him.” Doesn’t suspect Nogrod, and is worried about not suspecting him. She did not dream of me, because she had no opinion. Suspects Isabellka because she is so sensible, but other than that has no reason to suspect her. Thinks Mira is innocent, but Greenie disagrees with her. Perhaps she has dreamed about people Mira thinks are guilty, but they are actually innocent. Greenie says Sally is hard-to-read. Thinks Agan is innocent, but says she could be guilty, but won’t vote her without a good reason. Perhaps Greenie is trying to seem not-seerish, but still attempting to convince others of Agan’s innocence. No idea on Inzil. Suspects Shasta for wolfish reason of vote. Believes lottie, doesn’t know about Nerwen. Thinks Legate is innocent, no idea about Morsul. Doesn’t know about Nienna. Thinks Skip seems the most innocent of any non-confirmed innocents. (Dream possibly?) Lommy seems innocent. Thinks Brinniel is innocent.
Originally Posted by Lottie
Not at all. And I'm sorry I'm trying to get you lynched, I just happen to think you're evil.
I sincerely hope that you will not succeed in your attempt. Talking about getting people lynched, I'd be interested to know who people are going to vote. I want to go to bed as soon as possible, but I'd like to hear some more opinions before voting..
Wants to hear who people will vote for, perhaps to try to blend in or convince them of a candidate’s guiltiness or innocence.
Eurgh. I'm starting to see why Glirdy is suspected. I didn't like that long post of his at all. Or, it was long, but it included mainly suspicion on one of the village's top suspects and confirming innocent a person everyone's been considering innocent pretty much all Day. He could be an innocent who just suspects the same person as everyone else, but I didn't like the tone of that post.
Thinks Glirdy is guilty, but doesn’t seem like she dreamed of him.
Originally Posted by Shasta
This bugs me. You say my reasoning is bad, but don't explain why.
Right. I'm too tired to look up your vote post so correct me if I'm straying, but I believe you voted me because my vote seemed bandwaggonish. I think I've said enough about that vote already. What struck me as fishy about your vote was not only that it seemed ideally placed for a wolf, but also that voting someone for a bandwaggonish vote is about as easy a reason for a vote one can come up with, one that is seldom questioned though rather flimsy.

I was about to vote for you, but your latest post made me wonder if I should after all, it seemed somewhat genuine and sensible.

Defends herself, says Shasta seems wolfish, then retracts that. Perhaps the indecision leads to a dream?
My usual bed time was approximately four hours ago.

++ Shasta

I'll explain more fully toMorrow, if required. Good night.
Explain more? Perhaps dream about Shasta, and give result the next day?
Originally Posted by Shasta
...Why wouldn't it be required?
I thought I had already given one, and meant that if elaboration on it was required I would do that later. Basically, I voted for you because your vote from Day 1 looked strategically clean (voting for someone that has been somewhat suspected but hasn't gained any votes that far - not causing discord or attracting attention nor yet getting accused of bandwaggoning).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie, about Shasta
If he were a wolf, do you really think he'd try to get me to *stop* blindly ignoring suspicious behavior? No. He'd be happy with the known innocent expressing trust for him, and unless I did have the rest of his packmates pegged (which, if Shasta's a wolf, I'm way mixed up anyay ) and he'd be fine with me chasing down innocents.
I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Could you explain what you mean by this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
As has been noted, this might seem sinister in the way ww sticks with the two candidates that are (apparently) the lynch du jour. Perhaps though, he's now following Lottie's lead as the de facto innocent, at least someone who isn't going to intentionally try to lead us to an innocent lynch. That's why I've been mainly looking at her suspects.
That, I think, is a very dangerous path to take (wow, doesn't that sound epic!) because knowing that Lottie has our best interests at heart isn't saying anything about how accurate her suspicions are. Throughout WW history there have been innocents who bark at the wrong tree for an entire game though they have the village's best interests at heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
And if Nerwen has been making 'great contributions', what's the cause for worry about her?
I don't like this one, either. A wolf can very well make great contributions - a Nerwolf certainly can - and off-handedly dismissing the possibility makes it seem like you are grasping at straws to suspect whoever it was who talked about the great contributions. (I've lost the spot where I found this quote, should check that, probably...)

Now, off to write my Sally-post..
Suspects Shasta, and criticizes Zil for their reasoning.
Originally Posted by Shasta
Or, alternatively, Greenie, maybe you could explain yourself a different way? That'd be great if you weren't too busy.
Explain myself about what? I'm confused. The quotes from yesterDay I picked during the Night phase when I was reading what happened after I went to sleep, I saved them on a Word file and of course wasn't bright enough to note who Inzilresponded to.
Confusing post…
HUGE SALLY POST
-States all reasons for suspecting Sally
I'm back! First off, it seems I've made a mess again with the Inzil-quote-thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
When you say one makes 'great contributions', I take that to mean you approve of the things they've said. That's why I thought Glirdan was being contradictory there.
Ok, that's cleared - I understood great to mean considerable of size/quantity/importance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta
Okay, after reading through as my much-less-tired self, I still don't like the way Greenie quoted Inzil out-of-context. It seems to me fairly obvious that Inzil thought Glirdan was being contradictory in his post about Nerwen, which is a fair reason for suspicion, so I don't see where the "grasping at straws" fits in. Especially as Inzil looked to be under a bit of suspicion yesterday.
Yeah. It was partly that I misunderstood Inzil, partly that I didn't like the way he seemed to imply that making sense and being a wolf can't go together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta
TLDR; Nienna looks slightly worse to me for this comment and Greenie looks worse for saying it makes Nienna look better.
A probably irrelevant question: what does TLDR mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie
Anyway, though, my point is that waking up the known innocent from blind suspicion is not a good move for a wolf to make, but it is a good move for an innocent.
Ok, thanks, that cleared - though I'm not sure if I buy your point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie
First off, this really does look bad, Morsul. Secondly, what, exactly, do you mean by "It"? Voting early? Bandwaggoning? Because that's what you're doing, and it's not a very good method of getting wolves.
A technical point: getting a wolf lynched usually requires a bandwagon. Just saying. Of course, that isn't to say that I approve of Morsul's early, bandwaggonish vote. I don't.
Clarifications.
I'd prefer voting Glirdan or Nogrod toDay. Glirdan's death, as has been mentioned, would shed light to many things, and his interactions with Sally were very fishy. Nogrod's interactions with Sally looked bad too, and I don't like how he's been slipping under pretty much everyone's radar, being nice and invisible yet contributing. I could also vote Shasta or Inzil, but would prefer one of the earlier two.
Introduces Nogrod, a suspect that not many had suspected at that point. Also, suspects Shasta or Inzil. I am pretty sure Greenie dreamed about Nogrod, Shasta, or both.
Bed-time! I've been flip-flopping on whether to vote Nog or Glirdy, and decided to go for

++ Nogrod

Now I'm not sure if this is a throwaway, I suppose one could see it as such, but I just feel I should stir the pot a bit. I findNogrod very suspicious, he's being too agreeable and nudging things from the background, and his interactions with Sallyseemed quite wolf-on-wolf to me.

I won't be disappointed if Glirdy gets lynched. Unless he's an innocent, of course. That said, good night babes!

Votes Nogrod, its looking more suspicious that Greenie dreamed for Nogrod, because almost no one else considered him before Greenie.
Conclusion: Suspicious1 = Nog, Shasta. Suspicious2 = Zil, Morsul