Did Maedhros kill Laughter?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

No– look at all the ramifications of the "Lalaith Question", each of which surely deserves its own thread. Don't you think Lalaith needs a forum all to herself?

Did Maedhros kill her? Did she kill the butterfly? Would she have grown up to be an awesome dragon-pwning Mega-Sue? Did she die at all? Was she a Warg? And what about the geese?

What about the geese? They, quite simply, acted like the infamous snake and persuaded Lalaith to stomple that butterfly. Very obvious once you think about it.

Actually, there's another question. Why has Wilwa not sworn undying hatred towards Lalaith? She stompled a butterfly!

[Urwen]

I've got another scenario.

(Dagor Dagorath.A bunch of plotters talk quietly)

Haleth:So, we'll betray them like Uldor betrayed us?

Lalaith: Yes, that's my idea.

Caranthir: And a good idea it is.

Beleg & Turin:Sure!

(Scene fades...)

Mwahaha!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I've got another scenario.

(Dagor Dagorath.A bunch of plotters talk quietly)

Haleth:So, we'll betray them like Uldor betrayed us?

Lalaith: Yes, that's my idea.

Caranthir: And a good idea it is.

Beleg & Turin:Sure!

(Scene fades...)

Mwahaha!

Mwahaha... what?

Urwen, mind clarifying what's supposed to be going on, and who is being betrayed? (The Valar?) I just want to get everything straight before I deliver the inevitable smackdown.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

What about the geese? They, quite simply, acted like the infamous snake and persuaded Lalaith to stomple that butterfly. Very obvious once you think about it.

Of course! It must have happened something like this:

Lalaith: Ooo. Butterfwy pwetty!

[From either side, the narrow, beaked head and long serpentine of a goose thrusts into her field of vision.]

Goose 1 (hissing): Sssstomp it, Lalaith...
Goose 2 (hissing): Yesss! You know you want to....

And the rest, sadly, is history.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Actually, there's another question. Why has Wilwa not sworn undying hatred towards Lalaith? She stompled a butterfly!

Maybe she doesn't know? Someone needs to tell her, quick!

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

But Mnemo, your point about Turin's delirium and unreliability is fascinating. This Lalaith character could, feasibly, turn up anywhere. Any other mysteries in Tolkien's works, where she could fit in?

I can think of one. It's a long story, though:

Túrin's parents did indeed lie to him about his sister's death– not because she was a Warg, but because they didn't want him to know they had sold her to pay the doctor's bill.

They didn't have much choice. The mysterious traveller who happened to pass through Dor-lómin just when the plague was at its height offered to heal both their deathly ill children– but at a price: their daughter. [Dramatic chords!] Faced with the loss of both their offspring, Morwen and Húrin reluctantly agreed, despite their misgivings about the stranger's motives, and their doubts of his claim that all he wanted was a dear little girl to keep him company.

Little did they know justified their fears really were. This stranger was none other than... Sauron the Necromancer. [More dramatic chords!] By his dark sorcery the hapless Lalaith was transformed from an innocent child into a small but terrifying undead being– a kind of proto-Nazgûl, in fact. She served her black master faithfully for millenia, eventually becoming the Lieutenant of Morgul in the Third Age

Oh yes, didn't I mention that Sauron re-named his new servant after his old pal and colleague, the Lord of Balrogs? Well, I mean, "Lalaith" clearly wouldn't do, would it?

There you go: identity of Gothmog II solved once and for all!

NB: Note that Tolkien never once specifies Gothmog's gender! Trying to tell us something?

[Urwen]

Yesss, betray the Valar...

Don't forget that Morgoth was a Vala once.


Betray Morgoth's forces, of course! What else?

Let me clarify:

Those plotters planned to swear fealty to Morgoth, fight against elves and men for a while and then..join forces with ones they fought, with elvish trumpets and manish horns playing a sweet dramatic tune...


P.S. And as for the geese, they didn't work against Lalaith, but for her. Don't you see? They didn't want buttefly to take the credit! They wanted Lalaith herself to save her siblings, not some darn butterfly! And that's why they told her to squash it!

And forever and ever I'll work to defend Lalaith's honour!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Yesss, betray the Valar...

Don't forget that Morgoth was a Vala once.


Betray Morgoth's forces, of course! What else?

Let me clarify:

Those plotters planned to swear fealty to Morgoth, fight against elves and men for a while and then..join forces with ones they fought, with elvish trumpets and manish horns playing a sweet dramatic tune...

I see. And Morgoth would trust them... why, exactly?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

P.S. And as for the geese, they didn't work against Lalaith, but for her. Don't you see? They didn't want buttefly to take the credit! They wanted Lalaith herself to save her siblings, not some darn butterfly! And that's why they told her to squash it!

So, what went wrong? You know, seeing as Túrin and Nienor did, in fact, both come to a bad end? Remember?

[Urwen]

What went wrong is that Maedhros killed Lalaith before she and her pets geese could bring their plans to reality!