Which good guy (girl) do you least like?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

After all, if you're willing to believe people when they tell you a piece of jewellery will confer untold power, you might want to think about paying attention when those same people tell you its power is evil and too dangerous to be used. Boromir was awfully selective in what he chose to believe. Not that smart, really, is it?

That's the crux of why I don't have a great deal of sympathy for Boromir. He was privy to the same information regarding the Ring as the other members of the Fellowship. However, pride being such a large factor in his makeup (as it was in his father), he discounted the words spoken by Elrond, whom he had journeyed so far and through such perils to hear.
If you want to blame Denethor for Boromir being what he was, I can only point to the fact that his brother had the wisdom and humility to know he did not have the power to claim the Ring, and that was without the benefit of having heard the Council of Elrond.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That's the crux of why I don't have a great deal of sympathy for Boromir. He was privy to the same information regarding the Ring as the other members of the Fellowship. However, pride being such a large factor in his makeup (as it was in his father), he discounted the words spoken by Elrond, whom he had journeyed so far and through such perils to hear.

Oh, I have sympathy for him. People in the real world choose to believe what they want to believe all the time. I think Boromir is flawed in a very human way. What I'm disputing is that he was actually "right", or that because of this he should be considered a mastermind whose later actions are out of character. Which I think is what Nog's saying.

[Nogrod]

I do agree to disagree...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What I'm disputing is that he was actually "right", or that because of this he should be considered a mastermind whose later actions are out of character. Which I think is what Nog's saying.

I do not consider him a mastermind of any sort. On the contrary I see him as highly passionate and erring person who wishes for good and honour over all else. And that is exactly the mindset that would drive him to pursue the ring - not in a rational way but as the strongly emotional character he is (and given the information he had). I mean you know there are many kinds of emotions and giving your heart to the little-ones who suffer is just one of them. There are people who truly love their country, or good against evil, or God or whatnot, and are set in flames whenever they see those things dear to them in danger. I just think Tolkien built Boromir as someone whose deep emotions ran for his city, his country and for good against evil... and then he changed him to suit his plot.

But yeah, let's not make this into a "Lalaith-discussion".

It's not that important anyway...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

\I do not consider him a mastermind of any sort. On the contrary I see him as highly passionate and erring person who wishes for good and honour over all else. And that is exactly the mindset that would drive him to pursue the ring - not in a rational way but as the strongly emotional character he is (and given the information he had). I mean you know there are many kinds of emotions and giving your heart to the little-ones who suffer is just one of them. There are people who truly love their country, or good against evil, or God or whatnot, and are set in flames whenever they see those things dear to them in danger. I just think Tolkien built Boromir as someone whose deep emotions ran for his city, his country and for good against evil... and then he changed him to suit his plot.

But yeah, let's not make this into a "Lalaith-discussion".

It's not that important anyway...

No, but actually I find that I want to add something after all:

Look, my interpretation of what happens is that Boromir simply gives into temptation, that this is in large part due to the influence of the Ring itself, and that it works not just on his desire to fight evil and protect his country, but also on his personal pride and ambition.

"...What could not Aragorn do? Or if he refuses, why not Boromir? The Ring would give me power of Command. How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner!"

Boromir strode up and down, speaking ever more loudly. Almost he seemed to have forgotten Frodo, while his talk dwelt on walls and weapons, and the mustering of men: and he drew plans for for alliances and glorious victories to be; and he cast down Mordor, and became himself a mighty king, benevolent and wise.

I don't think it's an accident that this is extremely similar to Galadriel's "In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen," or Sam's fantasies in Mordor:

...he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the age, striding acriss the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-Dur. And then all the clouds rolled away, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit.

After this, Boromir, his face "hideously changed" suddenly tries to take the Ring by force, then, when Frodo gives him the slip, has hysterics– firstly screaming abuse after him, then bursting into tears.

Does any of this really sound like someone trying to accomplish a thought-out plan, to which he is firmly committed? Does it even sound like someone whose mind is working normally? As Boromir himself says, "a madness" took him. Betraying the trust placed in him by trying to seize the Ring is what's out of character for him, I think– but intentionally so.

So, this is all now completely OT for this thread. I just wanted make a further comment, because I've noticed that it's become pretty common for Tolkien fans, in defending this character from the demonizing treatment he gets in some quarters (he's an evil monster in about 90% of fan-fiction) to go the other way and claim that he was really smarter than everyone else, or that his motive were entirely pure. Which I don't think is supported by the actual text of the novel.