Ideas for drawing Fingolfin vs. Morgoth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-26-2010, 11:42 AM

I agree with skip. (Even about Christian Bale... that would actually be brilliant. I actually imagine Morgoth looking something like that. That's not to say I consider him handsome, though, but that's exactly the reason.)

That's not to say, though, that you cannot paint a big Morgoth next to a smaller Fingolfin. The picture, after all, does not have to be realistic: if you draw a big Morgoth, it can be menacing etc., although it does not have to mean that he was really fifteen meters tall. Personally, I really like Howe's illustration (and now that I looked at it, Morgoth actually is not THAT big there, I thought he was bigger in the picture). It is very clever that he covered Morgoth's head with the helmet there: he avoided the how-to-make-menacing-face-should-he-look-human-or-not dilemma people have discussed above. Although of course, a really skilled artist could probably be able to make Morgoth menacing also otherwise. But this move from Howe was likely also a clever way to avoid being dissed by fans who say "no, Morgoth should have cat eyes/reptile tongue/moustache/Mangekyou Sharingan". It also preserves the mystery.

One more thing about the height: I think it's really the crucial problem and I can see why most of the authors (at least all I can think of right now) have painted Morgoth considerably bigger, and that is, if you paint him about the same height as Fingolfin, you risk that it will look like just two guys fighting, two men (Elves...).

I think Morgoth has a bit of a similar problem like, say, the Balrog: with the Balrog, you also should not be able to determine its size. Alas, for the Balrog, it is far easier to make it unclear! (And it is actually the point.) If Morgoth is to be humanoid - like I think he should be, even though, in fact, the text does not make it necessary - you either have to make him a giant or risk making it look like a court duel between Éomer and Túrin Turambar. Not making him humanoid is of course a nice way to do it (or: in this case rather, not human), but that's a bit... well, see above for the horns and stuff.

So that's my opinion. As for the other gadgets, black plate armour is no doubt from my part at least.

Blind Guardian · 05-27-2010, 01:18 PM

Might I also point out that Barad-Dûr's stories are more man sized, not 3 stories=1 Sauron sized story. So if he wanted to get around easily he must have been relatively normal sized.

Edit: I went swimming, took a shower and ate lunch before I realized I'm think Sauron and you guys are talking about Morgoth

Beregond · 05-27-2010, 01:41 PM

Haha, I'm seriously considering using Christian Bale as a reference for Morgoth now!

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I tend to agree that Morgoth was not ridiculously tall like Ted Nasmith painted him, but, if I'm not mistaken, the words "tower" and "towering" are used to describe the way he appears. He should appear as tall as makes physical sense (keeping in mind the things that skip pointed out), perhaps even larger for the purposes of art, because Legate is right: if Morgoth looks like Fingolfin's equal the drama is lost.

I plan to be tricky and arrange my drawing in such a way that the heights of the two combatants cannot be compared, though I still have to make Morgoth appear towering and menacing. I'm not sure if I can pull that off, but I'll try. I think the face will be the most challenging aspect to draw right.

Blind Guardian · 05-27-2010, 02:33 PM

Post it when you're done!

Beregond · 05-27-2010, 03:11 PM

Yeah, of course I will!

05-26-2010, 11:42 AM	#1
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	I agree with skip. (Even about Christian Bale... that would actually be brilliant. I actually imagine Morgoth looking something like that. That's not to say I consider him handsome, though, but that's exactly the reason.) That's not to say, though, that you cannot paint a big Morgoth next to a smaller Fingolfin. The picture, after all, does not have to be realistic: if you draw a big Morgoth, it can be menacing etc., although it does not have to mean that he was really fifteen meters tall. Personally, I really like Howe's illustration (and now that I looked at it, Morgoth actually is not THAT big there, I thought he was bigger in the picture). It is very clever that he covered Morgoth's head with the helmet there: he avoided the how-to-make-menacing-face-should-he-look-human-or-not dilemma people have discussed above. Although of course, a really skilled artist could probably be able to make Morgoth menacing also otherwise. But this move from Howe was likely also a clever way to avoid being dissed by fans who say "no, Morgoth should have cat eyes/reptile tongue/moustache/Mangekyou Sharingan". It also preserves the mystery. One more thing about the height: I think it's really the crucial problem and I can see why most of the authors (at least all I can think of right now) have painted Morgoth considerably bigger, and that is, if you paint him about the same height as Fingolfin, you risk that it will look like just two guys fighting, two men (Elves...). I think Morgoth has a bit of a similar problem like, say, the Balrog: with the Balrog, you also should not be able to determine its size. Alas, for the Balrog, it is far easier to make it unclear! (And it is actually the point.) If Morgoth is to be humanoid - like I think he should be, even though, in fact, the text does not make it necessary - you either have to make him a giant or risk making it look like a court duel between Éomer and Túrin Turambar. Not making him humanoid is of course a nice way to do it (or: in this case rather, not human), but that's a bit... well, see above for the horns and stuff. So that's my opinion. As for the other gadgets, black plate armour is no doubt from my part at least. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

05-27-2010, 01:41 PM	#3
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Haha, I'm seriously considering using Christian Bale as a reference for Morgoth now! Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I tend to agree that Morgoth was not ridiculously tall like Ted Nasmith painted him, but, if I'm not mistaken, the words "tower" and "towering" are used to describe the way he appears. He should appear as tall as makes physical sense (keeping in mind the things that skip pointed out), perhaps even larger for the purposes of art, because Legate is right: if Morgoth looks like Fingolfin's equal the drama is lost. I plan to be tricky and arrange my drawing in such a way that the heights of the two combatants cannot be compared, though I still have to make Morgoth appear towering and menacing. I'm not sure if I can pull that off, but I'll try. I think the face will be the most challenging aspect to draw right. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

05-27-2010, 03:11 PM	#5
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Yeah, of course I will! __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."