You, my brown-eyed Frodo

[morwen edhelwen]

Well- since I only got into the book after I saw a bit of the movie it's a bit hard to get rid of the imagery of the movie. I think the thing is, a movie image can become 'the' version of characters even for people who read or watched its source before. Unless this isn't really related..
-Morwen

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by morwen edhelwen

Well- since I only got into the book after I saw a bit of the movie it's a bit hard to get rid of the imagery of the movie. I think the thing is, a movie image can become 'the' version of characters even for people who read or watched its source before. Unless this isn't really related..
-Morwen

It's exactly what the original post was about.

But some people can get rid of movie imagery, especially for characters (e.g. Faramir) whose physical appearance and inner character differed largely from book to film.

The problem with the whole issue is that even focusing on one physical appearance inherently delimits a character who, at least on the physical level, is only 'sketched' by the author (as most of Tolkien's characters are). And since the characters in the film often differ in other ways as well, it's easy to associate that single physical interpretation with a single personality interpretation--which is something I run into all the time with book fan fiction that relies on movie interpretations for the physical imagery. I love being introduced to different interpretations, but when everyone is giving me the same one then they aren't really exploring the characters in a creative fashion anymore.

That's why recovery or reconstruction of characters that are not 'the' version that Jackson gave us is so important to me, and why I was curious if and how people on the much more bookishly-minded Barrow-downs viewed the characters' physical appearance differently.

[Pitchwife]

I first read LotR about twenty years before the movies, so for a long time my inner images of the characters were more influenced by illustrations (most notably those in David Day's notorious Tolkien Bestiary, which, although freighted with non-canonical interpretations, had lots of beautiful artwork) and the Bakshi cartoon, but some characters remained rather hazy for me, because none of the visual representations I came across quite hit the nail on the head.

In the meantime, I've sort of adopted some of the movie characters, because they more or less fit what was in my head anyway and added detail to my preexisting image; others not so much.

The hobbits : have always been the least well-defined in my imagination, I'm afraid. Sean Astin's Sam works very well for me, Merry and Pippin sort offish, and Frodolijah not at all. Frodo should look several years older (and wiser and more elf-friendish, if you get my meaning), Pippin the reverse (he was the youngest of the four, not even of age yet - a teenager, if he was a Man).

Gandalf : McKellen was perfect as Gandalf the Grey, not quite so perfect as the White (but that's more a makeup issue - are we to suppose that his hair & beard were singed off in the fight with the Balrog, or why were they trimmed?).

Aragorn : now he may be the one I saw most clearly with my inner eye before the movies, and Viggo never came close for me. I've always pictured him as a sort of Leatherstocking figure, at least in his guise as Strider the Ranger; to be more specific, my Aragorn is Hellmut Lange, the actor who played Natty Bumppo in a late 60s German TV adaptation of Cooper's Tales which I saw as a child. Some pics:

Imagine him with longer hair, add a cloak and replace rifle with Andúril - that's my Strider!
On the Anduin:
http://www.bamby.de/1969/Leder-1a.jpg
With Hasufel:
http://www.tv-nostalgie.de/Bilder%20Lederstrumpf/2h.JPG
Bakshi's Aragorn wasn't too bad either (but give the poor guy some pants!)

Boromir : I like what Sean Bean did with the role, but both Boro- and Faramir should be dark haired, and Fara could do with a little more edge.

Legolas : should have darker hair (could be a darker blonde, auburn or any shade of brown, I don't care which), lose the fancy hairdo and cut it a little shorter (imagine him moving in the thickets of Mirkwood with those tresses - ouch!).

Gimli : John Rhys-Davies minus the comic relief would do nicely, but he should wear a hood instead of helmet prior to Helm's Deep.

Elrond : I found Bakshi's Elrond lacking in elvishness, but he's still better than "You've been leading two lives, Mr Aragorn...".

Galadriel : Cate Blanchett did a very nice job, but I imagine the Lady with a slightly more, er... motherly figure, and her hair a more reddish-like blonde, to contrast better with Celeborn's silver.

Saruman : see Gandalf above, only without reservations.

Théoden : should look a little older than Bernard Hill; long white hair & beard.

Éomer & Éowyn : more or less as in the movies; Éowyn maybe a litte sterner and cooler.

Denethor : movie-Denethor was a disgrace, both visually and as a character. My Steward is a much more ascetic figure ("...lest with age the body should grow soft and timid"!): lean and haughty, with an aquiline nose, whitening hair and a neatly trimmed greying beard. (No idea where the latter comes from - it's not essential, but that's how I picture him. And no, he doesn't munch cocktail tomatoes, thank you very much.)

That's more or less my somewhat unsystematic response to questions 1.-4. As for 5.: yes, I've tried to draw some of the characters the way I see them, but being the perfectionist I am, I'm not quite satisfied with the results.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

And since the characters in the film often differ in other ways as well, it's easy to associate that single physical interpretation with a single personality interpretation--which is something I run into all the time with book fan fiction that relies on movie interpretations for the physical imagery. I love being introduced to different interpretations, but when everyone is giving me the same one then they aren't really exploring the characters in a creative fashion.

Ah, fanon. I have much the same problem with it (not to mention a personal dislike for the liberal use of Elvish where Tolkien himself didn't use it, i.e. using "atar" in place of "father" in a phrase that was otherwise not in Elvish). Drives me bats, sometimes.

As far as my personal vision of the characters, I formed them decades before Jackson, when I aspired to turn my art toward illustration (I was all of 12 at the time). It took some time before the images settled down, but they've remained the same ever since. While most of the actors were acceptable for movie purposes and some were very close to my interpretations, none were so remarkable that they have replaced my old visions. My brain tends to keep them in distinctly separate categories, and if I ever find movie-isms creeping in, I can pull out my old illustrations or portrait drawings and reestablish my original visions.

[Lastande Took]

I just finished watching the movies Friday, and I have to admit they have affected my mental images of the characters. It's not constant, though. Sometimes I'll read a line and hear the actor's voice in my head, it's so movie!character. Other times it's a firmer, slightly movie-influenced image I'd come up with before watching the films. Other times I can't see the actor in my head at all, it's pure mental!character.

I'm almost embarrassed to confess I like the Bakshi Merry and Pip just as well, and in some ways better than, PJ's Hobbits. Boromir is slightly closer to mental!Boromir as well.

[morwen edhelwen]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

It's exactly what the original post was about.

But some people can get rid of movie imagery, especially for characters (e.g. Faramir) whose physical appearance and inner character differed largely from book to film.

The problem with the whole issue is that even focusing on one physical appearance inherently delimits a character who, at least on the physical level, is only 'sketched' by the author (as most of Tolkien's characters are). And since the characters in the film often differ in other ways as well, it's easy to associate that single physical interpretation with a single personality interpretation--which is something I run into all the time with book fan fiction that relies on movie interpretations for the physical imagery. I love being introduced to different interpretations, but when everyone is giving me the same one then they aren't really exploring the characters in a creative fashion anymore.

That's why recovery or reconstruction of characters that are not 'the' version that Jackson gave us is so important to me, and why I was curious if and how people on the much more bookishly-minded Barrow-downs viewed the characters' physical appearance differently.

Thanks Mnemosyne! yeah I agree- but if the writer describes their characters elaborately the image can become even more muddled.

[xMellrynxMaidenx]

I did read the books before the movies, and would have to say I pictured them to be similar to the actors/actresses in the movies. They were not dead ringers for them, but they came pretty close to being so. Elijah Wood, even though I love his acting, wasn't my Frodo. Viggo, in my minds eye, was my Strider, but as someone said he could have looked a little more weatherbeaten, and I always pictured my Strider to be a bit more well built; not that Viggo isn't. The elves, however, were perfect for me, all of them were; especially Galadriel.

I'm usually one of them that tends to have problems with my mental images being marred by the movie ones, but if anything, the movies HELPED my mental images; with the exception of Frodo, Faramir and Denethor, even though I love both Elijah and David. My mental images of them are actually similar to Pitchwife's.

In regards to question five, I do a little of all three. Well, more so RPGs than the other two. I truly am afraid to even ATTEMPT to write a fan-fic for Lord of the Rings; I feel that if I do so, I would only end up making a disgrace of myself. My writing is no where NEAR on par with that of Tolkien or any other seasoned writer. I have not yet attempted at drawing any of the characters or landscapes YET, because I usually need something to look at; I'm more of a cartoonist. So I have yet to attempt at drawing them. I usually tend to only like doing very descriptive RPGs so yes, RPing tends to draw upon the mental images quite alot.