Did Elves Use Magic? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legate of Amon Lanc · 07-01-2010, 04:25 PM

Yes, but as you can see, we are talking "password" here. It is not that Gandalf would be trying to remember whether professor Flitwick said it should be "alohomora" or "avada kedavra", it is trying to remember a password and experimenting with its intonation. Even the "Annon edhellen..." etc., even though it means (sorry for low knowledge of Elvish) something along the lines "Elven gate, open for me, Dwarven door, hear my words", it is not (given the logic of the text) an equivalent of Alohomora, but just another attempt of a password - apparently such a password existed somewhere at some time.

So not actual magic here. Even though I agree Gandalf IS of course meant to be a "wizard" and so close to the idea of wizards we usually have, but still, as it is said in the Silmarillion, UT or generally in places about the Istari, even the "wizard powers" of the Istari were not so much of a "magic" as we know it, but again some powers understood by the common folk as magical.

mark12_30 · 07-01-2010, 05:55 PM

I'm tempted to say that elven "magic" simply is a result of their deeper understanding of the undercurrents of things that are.

Legolas can hear the stones in Hollin: "Deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us, but they are gone."

Perhaps if Legolas had thought to listen to the doors of Moria, they would have spoken to him too. I wonder if the inscription distracted him from it.

Or do only those stones speak that elves have wrought?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 07-02-2010, 02:22 AM

That sounds actually quite good!

And as for who is able to hear that... I think it has something to do with the familiarity of the Elves with such things. A human sculptor who spends all his life with the stones can notice a lot more from them than some random person does, and Elves have centuries for that. And even Gimli, actually, when trying to figure out what kind of Gollum is following them from Moria, says:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothlórien

"I hear nothing but the night speech of plant and stone."

It may be just poetic license, but maybe not. All the beings of Middle-Earth seem to be far closer to their world than humans usually are. Well, like I said, they have centuries for that; but they also seem to be a bit more perceptive and caring of things around them.

07-01-2010, 04:25 PM	#1
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Yes, but as you can see, we are talking "password" here. It is not that Gandalf would be trying to remember whether professor Flitwick said it should be "alohomora" or "avada kedavra", it is trying to remember a password and experimenting with its intonation. Even the "Annon edhellen..." etc., even though it means (sorry for low knowledge of Elvish) something along the lines "Elven gate, open for me, Dwarven door, hear my words", it is not (given the logic of the text) an equivalent of Alohomora, but just another attempt of a password - apparently such a password existed somewhere at some time. So not actual magic here. Even though I agree Gandalf IS of course meant to be a "wizard" and so close to the idea of wizards we usually have, but still, as it is said in the Silmarillion, UT or generally in places about the Istari, even the "wizard powers" of the Istari were not so much of a "magic" as we know it, but again some powers understood by the common folk as magical. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

07-01-2010, 05:55 PM	#2
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	I'm tempted to say that elven "magic" simply is a result of their deeper understanding of the undercurrents of things that are. Legolas can hear the stones in Hollin: "Deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us, but they are gone." Perhaps if Legolas had thought to listen to the doors of Moria, they would have spoken to him too. I wonder if the inscription distracted him from it. Or do only those stones speak that elves have wrought? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.