Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So - there's been some talk about creating a requirement that all would-be mods play a minimum number of games before modding, to ensure that they are sufficiently familiar with Barrdowdowns WW...

I'm all for it. What say you?

I agree. We might want to go with a set amount, but I also remember for new players that wanted to mod a game, they'd be in a few, learn a bit, but also have an experienced player co-mod, simply to help with rules and the "house-keeping" part of the game. There's much more work involved then writing good narrations. This is how Glirdan suckered me into co-modding his first modded game (I'm surprised my memory is that good!).

So, I think a 5-6 game requirement is good, but if there is a new player, who would like to mod (but hasn't reached that requirement) perhaps we can add the caveat they have an experienced player co-mod?

BG, if you want to continue on and mod the next game, I would suggest a co-mod. What I remember from helping Glirdan's first modded game, is he set up the theme, the roles, did the narrations. That will be all for you, and the co-mod will just be there to help you with the rules, and general management part of the game (or to close/open the day and night phases if there are days you can't be on-line at the DL). This way the game keeps rolling smoothly, and there is someone to help you, because like I said there's much more to it than writing narrations and picking roles. That's the fun stuff.

I would be more than happy to co-mod for ya, all you have to do is ask.

[satansaloser2005]

Wow. I just....wow. I'm sorry, but I've been (and will be) gone. Can someone please fairly and without bias of any kind explain to me what happened in Paranoia's game?


Also, Rikae, I'm starting up that thread we talked about shortly. (I'm in a planning meeting with another member of camp staff and happened to check the Downs.) I think it really needs to be covered, especially given the current....situation?

*goes to post, gives everyone hugs and calming teas and things*

[satansaloser2005]

Also, with all due respect, I don't think BG is remotely ready to mod. I'm sorry, dear, but if you're going to mod I won't even consider playing at this point, because you don't yet understand many of the basic concepts of Werewolf. Once you have a grip on when you're allowed to post and possess an understanding of proper Werewolf behaviors and procedures (in addition to those of the Downs in general) I may be happy to play in your game, but right now I can't in good conscience back you up for a modding position. You're not ready.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Wow. I just....wow. I'm sorry, but I've been (and will be) gone. Can someone please fairly and without bias of any kind explain to me what happened in Paranoia's game?

I only know what I've read, but it appears that some rules were secretly altered, and at least one player's role was revealed to another active player, without that revealment being the result of a game rule.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I only know what I've read, but it appears that some rules were secretly altered, and at least one player's role was revealed to another active player, without that revealment being the result of a game rule.

So not like me giving you people cookies? 'Cause you know I've done that before, but it was because the player completed a task (or greatly amused me). Without reason or warning, I don't think that's proper game practice, alas. I would of course want to hear Paranoia's thoughts too, because it's not fair to pass judgement without knowing if he had any particular reasons or whims.

[Glirdan]

BG, I mean this in no offense whatsoever, but I would much rather wait to play in a game that you're modding. I have now played in two games where something went wrong in the game due to mods....well, to put it plainly, not knowing any better. What I mean to say is that they haven't had the amount of experience playing the games to fully understand all the rules of WW. So, I would much rather wait for you to mod and see what kind of game you can run after you've had the experience.

[Blind Guardian]

Yeah, that was my edit2. I don't mind waiting. Just remember that I do want to mod!

[Pitchwife]

I've followed the current game with one eye, but as a non-player I'm not going to comment on the present situation beyond seconding what sally said last - i.e. common courtesy if not fairness would dictate to hear Noia before you jump to any conclusions.

Btw sally, I don't quite remember - did you give that kind of 'cookies' to living players as well or only the dead? The latter of course doesn't harm anybody in my opinion; not so sure about the former.

On general matters, I think a minimum of 5-6 games played before your modding debut is only sensible. There can always be exceptions, of course - e.g. I remember Morsul did a competent modding job after having played 2-3 games or something like that, but as a general rule it should be considered. And having a co-mod is never a bad idea, regardless of the mod's experience, just so that somebody can take over if life or the unpredictable demons of the internet throw something unexpected at you.

Originally Posted by BG

If you think that's too little I can write up how my game would go and send it to you. (Ie whoever wants it.) You can read over it and send it back with any comments you have, good or bad, I don't care, I learn from my mistakes

That's a very good idea, to consult with an experienced player about your ideas for your first modded game. Actually, I've been ruminating about a game of my own for a while now, and I've already decided to do exactly that before throwing my hat into the ring.
Another good idea for first-time mods (except veterans who somehow just never got around to modding one for whatever reasons, like e.g. Nerwen before the last game) might be to first try their hands on a simple traditional game before venturing for something more experimental.

Finally, sally and Rikae, about that thread you're planning to start, are you thinking of something like this? I discovered that old thread of Nogrod's yesterday while browsing through some older games and immediately thought we should have a second edition of it after what went on in the last game. Anyway, it's a thought-provoking read, and some of the questions raised in it are obviously still up to date.

[Brinniel]

Okay, I haven't been much on the Downs lately, but I heard about what was happening and wanted to give some input.

First off, I mentioned elsewhere that there should be a 6 game minimum, and I stand by it. Each WW game can play out so differently (especially when it's experimental), so only a couple games will not get you the experience needed to fully understand the concept and how everything works particularly on this site. Blind Guardian, I do think you should wait until you've played a few more games before modding. Nothing against you...I've never even actually played with you, but I don't think you have enough experience. And anyway, it doesn't look like you're on the top of the list.

We need more organisation. So the list...

Alona
Glirdan
Lommy (won't be able to mod until mid-August, feel free to skip until then)
Zil

I think the rule was only four on the list at a time, so perhaps we should keep it at that. Unless we want to pull it up to five, but no more than that. Alona has been MIA for a long time, and unless she plans on modding soon, I think she should be taken off the list. Does anyone want to contact her about it? Glirdan, you've also passed several times...are you ready to mod next, or is there a particular time period you would like to reserve? Lommy wanted to mod around mid-August, so I think we should give her the next game around that time frame. I know we all get busy with RL, so I can understand being on the list and passing a couple times. But if you think you may need to pass more than that, I think it's probably a good idea to either reserve a month that you know you can commit to or not sign up at all. It would prevent someone from floating on the top of a list too long and taking up one of the 4 (or 5) available spaces, and also make things easier for those lower on the list who may not yet be fully prepared.

One last comment I want to make is that we've had too many experimental games. Don't get me wrong, experimental games are a lot of fun. But there should be an even balance of traditional and experimental games which it doesn't seem like there has been lately...correct me if I'm wrong on this, I realise I haven't played a lot of games this season. I would say a game with wolves, ordos, a hunter, ranger, seer, and cobbler (with no unusual twists) could be accepted as traditional. Though if we wanted to be truly traditional, there would be no hunter or cobbler....and maybe not even a seer. I don't know if there's a way we can create a balanced system like that...perhaps those who sign up for the mod list could state whether their game is experimental or traditional, it would help. Just a thought...

[Gwathagor]

Thanks for being a good sport, Blind Guardian.

[Blind Guardian]

Not counting noias game, if I play every game I can probably mod after Lottie. Sound good?

Your welcome

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Sally

Wow. I just....wow. I'm sorry, but I've been (and will be) gone. Can someone please fairly and without bias of any kind explain to me what happened in Paranoia's game?

I've read the pms Rikae sent and received, so I guess I'm closest to both informed and unbiased. I'll try my best.

It started at the end of Day2. Paranoia is used to count votes up to the deadline, but not right at the deadline, so my vote, which was going to decide a tie, was not counted. Nobody knew about this rule, so we all assumed things would be counted as usual. This caused some minor complaints on the admin thread, but nothing serious. More problematic was that he also revealed the role of the lynched player, but not who the lynched player was (we now had a tie)! This mistake still hasn't been corrected. Also, the narration indicated that on each Day, a wolf had been voted for.

Wolf-Rikae complained about all this in a pm to the mod and received a problematic reply. Paranoia tried to cheer her up quite elaborately (Rikae was not in need of cheer, but in need of having her complaints be dealt with, so she was a bit annoyed) and in the course of it, he revealed a gifted's role to her (not saying any more than that, since the game is still officially going on). To be fair, he did clear up the narration-thing to her. However, what he also brought up was that he counted cobblers among the baddies, so a village with f.ex. 2 wolves, a cobbler, and 3 innocents would be a losing one, not one on its last Day. All of this clarification appeared only in the pm reply, not on the (admin-) thread.

With the extra knowledge about the gifted, Rikae had no choice but to drop out in order to keep the game fair. Boro and I followed. Paranoia has been missing since the pm to Rikae (I'm not sure whether he even knows about her dropping out). We should be playing Day3 right at this moment.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

One last comment I want to make is that we've had too many experimental games. Don't get me wrong, experimental games are a lot of fun. But there should be an even balance of traditional and experimental games which it doesn't seem like there has been lately...correct me if I'm wrong on this, I realise I haven't played a lot of games this season. I would say a game with wolves, ordos, a hunter, ranger, seer, and cobbler (with no unusual twists) could be accepted as traditional. Though if we wanted to be truly traditional, there would be no hunter or cobbler....and maybe not even a seer. I don't know if there's a way we can create a balanced system like that...perhaps those who sign up for the mod list could state whether their game is experimental or traditional, it would help. Just a thought...

I can assure everyone that what I have in mind is quite traditional. I don't mind something off the beaten path every now and then, but every game having secret roles and strange plot twists is simply too much for my poor, overwhelmed mind to handle.

[Glirdan]

Usually I would have no say on this matter, but I am actually quite irritated. I completely agree with Boro and Rikae. I remember when I modded my first game, I had played at least five or six so I was familiar with it, but I still had Boro around to help me out and it turned out to be a pretty decent game for my first one. So I think that five or six games is more then reasonable.

[Blind Guardian]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I agree. We might want to go with a set amount, but I also remember for new players that wanted to mod a game, they'd be in a few, learn a bit, but also have an experienced player co-mod, simply to help with rules and the "house-keeping" part of the game. There's much more work involved then writing good narrations. This is how Glirdan suckered me into co-modding his first modded game (I'm surprised my memory is that good!).

So, I think a 5-6 game requirement is good, but if there is a new player, who would like to mod (but hasn't reached that requirement) perhaps we can add the caveat they have an experienced player co-mod?

BG, if you want to continue on and mod the next game, I would suggest a co-mod. What I remember from helping Glirdan's first modded game, is he set up the theme, the roles, did the narrations. That will be all for you, and the co-mod will just be there to help you with the rules, and general management part of the game (or to close/open the day and night phases if there are days you can't be on-line at the DL). This way the game keeps rolling smoothly, and there is someone to help you, because like I said there's much more to it than writing narrations and picking roles. That's the fun stuff.

I would be more than happy to co-mod for ya, all you have to do is ask.

please? If it's okay I would like to mod. I for one disagree with Noia telling another player a gifteds role. I have played 2 1/2 games. If you think that's too little I can write up how my game would go and send it to you. (Ie whoever wants it.) You can read over it and send it back with any comments you have, good or bad, I don't care, I learn from my mistakes Though at the moment I can write anything up because I'm busy. Maybe in a hour or two I can start. Also, I haven't noticed if Noia came back.

Edit: just read the other thread. I was thinking of a total lotr based game! Orcs infesting a village of Rohan! (yeah, I just watched two towers)


Edit2: that's okay. I can wait to mod.