Oxford English Dictionary 'will not be printed again' - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Hilde Bracegirdle · 08-29-2010, 05:47 PM

I think there is a place for both and would hate to see the printed versions go entirely extinct. I'm way too impatient to wait for Windows to boot up every time I need to look something up!

On a more serious note, I think if I were told I had to give up my hard back copy, I'd put up a good fight. It would be like having something very valuable and being told to give it to someone else for safe keeping. There is always that chance that something might happen and you would never get it back when you want it.

davem · 08-29-2010, 06:35 PM

The real significance for me in this story is that a book which Tolkien himself worked on may be reaching the end of its real life & about to take on a virtual one. Wonder what his thoughts would be?

Inziladun · 08-29-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

The real significance for me in this story is that a book which Tolkien himself worked on may be reaching the end of its real life & about to take on a virtual one. Wonder what his thoughts would be?

Not being much of a fan of 'technology' and 'progress', I doubt he would have approved. I don't think he would have cared for the Digital Age in general.

Hilde Bracegirdle · 08-29-2010, 06:51 PM

Having translated older works, I can't help but think he would see value in a tangible printed page over the more transient, virtual one.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 08-29-2010, 06:55 PM

The notion that books will completely disappear is completely ridiculous! They've been around for how long exactly? They are not going to be done away with, especially this quickly. Electronics lose their shine and novelty quickly. Computers and electronic media are great, but it's not going to stop people from buying books and using technology that is as old as writing itself. I agree that it is true that dictionaries are easier to use when you don't have to search through two thousand pages of words you don't want, but there's a sort of satisfaction that goes with looking through a real dictionary and finding the word you want. I, at least, look forward to owning every single volume of the Oxford English Dictionary some day.

Hilde Bracegirdle · 08-29-2010, 07:00 PM

Ah, and when browsing through those hundreds of thousands of words you're likely to meet a few new ones! Can't do that nearly as easily on line.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 08-29-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

Ah, and when browsing through those hundreds of thousands of words you're likely to meet a few new ones! Can't do that nearly as easily on line.

Precisely! I had to look up a word in the OED in our school library once because the dictionaries in my lit teacher's room just didn't have it (the word in question, I found out was not actually English in origin, which is why it wasn't in other dictionaries). I stumbled upon some other interesting words that day too.

LadyBrooke · 08-29-2010, 10:05 PM

Unless they plan on making the electronic readers cheaper they're not going to be able to get rid of paper bound books. I currently live in a relatively poor area of the country and while I am fortunate enough to be able to buy books, I know many people who are solely dependent on the public and school libraries for books. There is simply no way that the people in this area would be able to buy a Kindle or iPad. What are the publishers going to do, subsidize electronic readers for everybody.

Dealing with the OED specifically the rate to subscribe for one year is $295USD, the price for the OED Print Version on Amazon is $995USD. Assuming that a person who bought the OED P.V. would take care of it and make it last for longer than four years they would actually come out ahead because the by the end of four years online subscribers would have paid $1180USD.

It looks like I've found another soapbox.

Anyways if anybody is interested in a good book about the beginnings of the OED there's one called The Surgeon of Crowthorne by Simon Winchester. The U.S. title is The Professor and the Madman.

davem · 08-30-2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

Unless they plan on making the electronic readers cheaper they're not going to be able to get rid of paper bound books. I currently live in a relatively poor area of the country and while I am fortunate enough to be able to buy books, I know many people who are solely dependent on the public and school libraries for books. There is simply no way that the people in this area would be able to buy a Kindle or iPad. What are the publishers going to do, subsidize electronic readers for everybody.

Not wanting to come across as some kind of loony socialist, but I suspect that publishers don't think very much about those too poor to be able to afford an e-reader (let alone an ipad). They're producing the devices for those with the funds to buy them - they aren't in the business of social care.

Quote:

It looks like I've found another soapbox.

Anyways if anybody is interested in a good book about the beginnings of the OED there's one called The Surgeon of Crowthorne by Simon Winchester. The U.S. title is The Professor and the Madman.

There's a book specificall about Tolkien's time on the OED - Ring of Words http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/...f_words_pb.php

I can see the argument that language changes so fast now, that life generally is so fast, that on line access is preferable - & I can't really put the other side of the case because I tend to go on-line for that kind of stuff, but I just like the idea of having the physical books around somewhere.

E-books are far more desired by publishers than readers, I think - they cost nothing to produce(no raw materials costs, no manufacturing costs, no transport cost, no storage costs - & can be sold for close on the price of the physical book. And that's after you've paid out a small fortune for your e-reader....

The way things seem to be going is a combination of e-texts & print on demand (cf http://www.tolkien.co.uk/PrintonDema...sdt=1&sort=son ) which will all mean that fairly soon we would start to see an end to the book except as luxury item, or as sellable item - the e-books are mostly restricted to use on one or two devices so can't be sold on or lent.

Do we need physical books though? Or if we do, will our kids & grandkids? For myself, I can see how reference books can be replaced by on-line access, but not novels - Lord of the Rings on an ipad just seems wrong, a denial of the essential nature & message of the work itself - which at its heart is the story of a physical book of history & its transmission down the ages.

LadyBrooke · 08-30-2010, 04:50 AM

I can't imagine growing up without books, but if they truly become a luxury item I guess a lot of people will grow up with the privilege of reading books. Which rather scares me, seeing as the literacy rate is bad enough without denying access to people who want to read.

Also the idea of being completely dependent on an electronic device for my books scares me. Electronics don't work half the time.

I work in the Middle School Library this year. I also read to some of the kindergartners and first graders on the bus. I can tell you that for some of these kids there is nothing compared to a physical book. So I don't think that today's kids necessarily want book publishers to stop publishing physical books.

Morthoron · 08-30-2010, 04:53 AM

A thought came to me. It's not really epiphanic, but if publishers shift to e-readers completely, doesn't that then make their jobs obsolete in many cases? As an author, what exactly do I need a publisher for, if I can self-publish on the internet? All one really needs is a generic e-reader that will accept a file off the 'net and voila! I no longer have to share the profits of a book with a publisher or, rather, the publisher won't be doling out scant percentages of my profits to me.

Of course, there is the marketing aspect of publishers, and I suppose that will remain an effective tool for many years, but national book chains are already suffering in the U.S. (Barnes & Noble is still healthy, but Borders is hovering near bankruptcy), and if books are eventually going the way of the dodo, what would be the point of going to a book store at all?

Naturally, trade books and dictionaries may still require publishers, but it seems that encyclopedias are already becoming irrelevent, what with the ease of finding information on the internet. I have a copy of the OED sitting on an antique lectern, and it looks very smart -- literally -- but I do not go to it as often as I used to. Seeking out words on the internet is far easier. But I do not like e-readers, personally, in regards to simply reading a book. I skip around and backtrack too much -- the cursed thing hurts my eyes. I also still read a newspaper every morning, even though the publishers have the exact same info on the 'net. But I am probably one of the last generation to find solace in a paper and a cup of coffee to start my day. Besides, I don't believe they have found an adequate internet solution for crossword puzzles.

As far as Tolkien's view on the matter? I think he would be appalled. But this is a man who deeply distrusted automobiles and other forms of technology, which made him old-fashioned even 50 years ago.

08-29-2010, 05:47 PM	#1
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	I think there is a place for both and would hate to see the printed versions go entirely extinct. I'm way too impatient to wait for Windows to boot up every time I need to look something up! On a more serious note, I think if I were told I had to give up my hard back copy, I'd put up a good fight. It would be like having something very valuable and being told to give it to someone else for safe keeping. There is always that chance that something might happen and you would never get it back when you want it. Last edited by Hilde Bracegirdle; 08-29-2010 at 06:01 PM.

08-29-2010, 06:35 PM	#2
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	The real significance for me in this story is that a book which Tolkien himself worked on may be reaching the end of its real life & about to take on a virtual one. Wonder what his thoughts would be? __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

08-29-2010, 06:55 PM	#5
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	The notion that books will completely disappear is completely ridiculous! They've been around for how long exactly? They are not going to be done away with, especially this quickly. Electronics lose their shine and novelty quickly. Computers and electronic media are great, but it's not going to stop people from buying books and using technology that is as old as writing itself. I agree that it is true that dictionaries are easier to use when you don't have to search through two thousand pages of words you don't want, but there's a sort of satisfaction that goes with looking through a real dictionary and finding the word you want. I, at least, look forward to owning every single volume of the Oxford English Dictionary some day. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

08-29-2010, 10:05 PM	#8
LadyBrooke Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The modern day version of Edoras: horses, wind, rolling plains =) Posts: 507	Unless they plan on making the electronic readers cheaper they're not going to be able to get rid of paper bound books. I currently live in a relatively poor area of the country and while I am fortunate enough to be able to buy books, I know many people who are solely dependent on the public and school libraries for books. There is simply no way that the people in this area would be able to buy a Kindle or iPad. What are the publishers going to do, subsidize electronic readers for everybody. Dealing with the OED specifically the rate to subscribe for one year is $295USD, the price for the OED Print Version on Amazon is $995USD. Assuming that a person who bought the OED P.V. would take care of it and make it last for longer than four years they would actually come out ahead because the by the end of four years online subscribers would have paid $1180USD. It looks like I've found another soapbox. Anyways if anybody is interested in a good book about the beginnings of the OED there's one called The Surgeon of Crowthorne by Simon Winchester. The U.S. title is The Professor and the Madman. __________________ Busy, Busy, Busy...hoping for more free time soon.

08-30-2010, 04:50 AM	#10
LadyBrooke Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The modern day version of Edoras: horses, wind, rolling plains =) Posts: 507	I can't imagine growing up without books, but if they truly become a luxury item I guess a lot of people will grow up with the privilege of reading books. Which rather scares me, seeing as the literacy rate is bad enough without denying access to people who want to read. Also the idea of being completely dependent on an electronic device for my books scares me. Electronics don't work half the time. I work in the Middle School Library this year. I also read to some of the kindergartners and first graders on the bus. I can tell you that for some of these kids there is nothing compared to a physical book. So I don't think that today's kids necessarily want book publishers to stop publishing physical books. __________________ Busy, Busy, Busy...hoping for more free time soon.

08-29-2010, 06:51 PM	#4
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	Having translated older works, I can't help but think he would see value in a tangible printed page over the more transient, virtual one.

08-29-2010, 07:00 PM	#6
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	Ah, and when browsing through those hundreds of thousands of words you're likely to meet a few new ones! Can't do that nearly as easily on line.

08-30-2010, 04:53 AM	#11
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	A thought came to me. It's not really epiphanic, but if publishers shift to e-readers completely, doesn't that then make their jobs obsolete in many cases? As an author, what exactly do I need a publisher for, if I can self-publish on the internet? All one really needs is a generic e-reader that will accept a file off the 'net and voila! I no longer have to share the profits of a book with a publisher or, rather, the publisher won't be doling out scant percentages of my profits to me. Of course, there is the marketing aspect of publishers, and I suppose that will remain an effective tool for many years, but national book chains are already suffering in the U.S. (Barnes & Noble is still healthy, but Borders is hovering near bankruptcy), and if books are eventually going the way of the dodo, what would be the point of going to a book store at all? Naturally, trade books and dictionaries may still require publishers, but it seems that encyclopedias are already becoming irrelevent, what with the ease of finding information on the internet. I have a copy of the OED sitting on an antique lectern, and it looks very smart -- literally -- but I do not go to it as often as I used to. Seeking out words on the internet is far easier. But I do not like e-readers, personally, in regards to simply reading a book. I skip around and backtrack too much -- the cursed thing hurts my eyes. I also still read a newspaper every morning, even though the publishers have the exact same info on the 'net. But I am probably one of the last generation to find solace in a paper and a cup of coffee to start my day. Besides, I don't believe they have found an adequate internet solution for crossword puzzles. As far as Tolkien's view on the matter? I think he would be appalled. But this is a man who deeply distrusted automobiles and other forms of technology, which made him old-fashioned even 50 years ago. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. Last edited by Morthoron; 08-30-2010 at 08:41 AM.