horncall of buckland - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rumil · 09-02-2010, 12:54 PM

Hi Alman,

Welcome to the Downs!

My interpretation is that the horn call tune rhymes with the words 'fear! fire! foes! awake! awake!'

So something like 'Bwa, Ba, Baa, Bawa, Bawa' - guess you can tell I'm no musician huh!

I agree that its not 100% clear either way though.

Morthoron · 09-02-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alman

then why not in this instance just send out the sound for "FOES! FOES! FOES! Awake!!Awake!" ??
I am more inclined to believe it was actually a magical talking alarm (like the trolls wallet!)

It was a generic horn call, A 911 bugle blast to account for all sorts of emergencies.
And the Hobbits had no magic. Absolutely none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumil

My interpretation is that the horn call tune rhymes with the words 'fear! fire! foes! awake! awake!'

So something like 'Bwa, Ba, Baa, Bawa, Bawa' - guess you can tell I'm no musician huh!

I agree, Rumil. The horn blast imitates the call.

Nerwen · 09-02-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alman

then why not in this instance just send out the sound for "FOES! FOES! FOES! Awake!!Awake!" ?? I am more inclined to believe it was actually a magical talking alarm (like the trolls wallet!)

But Alman, the logic there's completely reversible– why have a magical alarm that only conveys a non-specific "hey, there's some kind of emergency or other" message, when a simple horn call could do the job?

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 09-02-2010, 10:25 PM

For some reason I always thought that the Fear, Fire, Foes, Awake thing was just accompanying the actual horn call. Is that not so?

Nerwen · 09-02-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

For some reason I always thought that the Fear, Fire, Foes, Awake thing was just accompanying the actual horn call. Is that not so?

I think it's the meaning of the call, and also perhaps the call has the same rhythm as the phrase, as Rumil suggests.

Estelyn Telcontar · 09-03-2010, 05:51 AM

Even simple hunting horns without valves (which give modern concert horns the ability to play precise notes) can be played with various notes. Compare that to the bugle in military use - every soldier knows whether it is sounding attack, retreat, reveille, or taps. In LotR we also have examples of brass instruments playing signals that signify persons - Beregond identified the "sound of a trumpet ending on a long high note" (RotK) as Faramir's call. No magic involved there either.

Tolkien had military experience, something that a majority of his readers has not had. The most logical explanation for the warning in the Shire and all others uses of horns, trumpets, etc. is that the melody they played had a specific meaning, and each warning had a different sequence of notes.

I remember weekly signal "rehearsals" of the emergency warning signals in my home town when I was young - three long meant something different than one continuous, for example. Even with only one note, the rhythm denoted various meanings.

It could be that each of the words (fear, fire, foes, awake) had its own signal, and when combined, the highest level of warning was sounded.

alman · 09-03-2010, 06:10 AM

It was a generic horn call, A 911 bugle blast to account for all sorts of emergencies.
And the Hobbits had no magic. Absolutely none

The did have magic, but it came from the outside. Old Took had magical cufflinks, gifted by Gandalf. (perhaps the talking horn of buckland was a gift from Gandalf as well! maybe even in Gandalfs voice.)
Bilbo had sting, and Bilbo also gave many presents on his 111st birthday that were obviously magical.

Also, the horn, if magic, could only have been enchanted to alert a static message in emergencies. It need not have been intelligent and recognize specific danger, just to go off when sounded.

It just seems odd, that with all the horn blowing in the books, only one has words associated with it. (why didnt Theoden toot out "forward!!" instead of a generic blast?)

Selmo · 09-03-2010, 06:07 AM

In my time as a youngster and as a leader in a youth organisation, I've learned, played and taught a few dozen military-style bugle calls used during camps.

Just like the Buckland alarm call, most of them have words associated with them. The words help the bugler remember the tune and help the hearers remember what the tune means.

mark12_30 · 09-03-2010, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selmo

In my time as a youngster and as a leader in a youth organisation, I've learned, played and taught a few dozen military-style bugle calls used during camps.

Just like the Buckland alarm call, most of them have words associated with them. The words help the bugler remember the tune and help the hearers remember what the tune means.

I believe Selmo is correct.

For instance, we are all familiar with "Taps". Here is one set of lyrics for "Taps":

"Day is done, gone the sun
From the lakes, from the hills, from the trees
All is well, Safely rest, God is nigh"

So while we usually call that tune "Taps", we might also call it "Day is done". It means, either, Sunset... or a Burial. We all know it.

09-02-2010, 12:54 PM	#1
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Horn Hi Alman, Welcome to the Downs! My interpretation is that the horn call tune rhymes with the words 'fear! fire! foes! awake! awake!' So something like 'Bwa, Ba, Baa, Bawa, Bawa' - guess you can tell I'm no musician huh! I agree that its not 100% clear either way though. __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

09-02-2010, 10:25 PM	#4
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	For some reason I always thought that the Fear, Fire, Foes, Awake thing was just accompanying the actual horn call. Is that not so? __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

09-03-2010, 05:51 AM	#6
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Even simple hunting horns without valves (which give modern concert horns the ability to play precise notes) can be played with various notes. Compare that to the bugle in military use - every soldier knows whether it is sounding attack, retreat, reveille, or taps. In LotR we also have examples of brass instruments playing signals that signify persons - Beregond identified the "sound of a trumpet ending on a long high note" (RotK) as Faramir's call. No magic involved there either. Tolkien had military experience, something that a majority of his readers has not had. The most logical explanation for the warning in the Shire and all others uses of horns, trumpets, etc. is that the melody they played had a specific meaning, and each warning had a different sequence of notes. I remember weekly signal "rehearsals" of the emergency warning signals in my home town when I was young - three long meant something different than one continuous, for example. Even with only one note, the rhythm denoted various meanings. It could be that each of the words (fear, fire, foes, awake) had its own signal, and when combined, the highest level of warning was sounded. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

09-03-2010, 06:10 AM	#7
alman Newly Deceased Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 10	It was a generic horn call, A 911 bugle blast to account for all sorts of emergencies. And the Hobbits had no magic. Absolutely none The did have magic, but it came from the outside. Old Took had magical cufflinks, gifted by Gandalf. (perhaps the talking horn of buckland was a gift from Gandalf as well! maybe even in Gandalfs voice.) Bilbo had sting, and Bilbo also gave many presents on his 111st birthday that were obviously magical. Also, the horn, if magic, could only have been enchanted to alert a static message in emergencies. It need not have been intelligent and recognize specific danger, just to go off when sounded. It just seems odd, that with all the horn blowing in the books, only one has words associated with it. (why didnt Theoden toot out "forward!!" instead of a generic blast?)

09-03-2010, 06:07 AM	#8
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	In my time as a youngster and as a leader in a youth organisation, I've learned, played and taught a few dozen military-style bugle calls used during camps. Just like the Buckland alarm call, most of them have words associated with them. The words help the bugler remember the tune and help the hearers remember what the tune means.