Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Inziladun]

Well, I'm not displeased with the reps we have. I do think it's better to have several reps with a fairly even amount of power over one or two with a large number of votes.

Originally Posted by Folwren

k, I just briefly glanced over the forty plus posts I missed in my absense. I'd like to suggest that we kill Phantom this evening. Using his own logic, the first death is a stab in the dark anyway, so it may as well be him, right?

Heh. That's pretty good.

Originally Posted by Folwren

It is simply not logical that he could not see or concede how Sally's and Lottie's votes were indeed not logical or worth while. He could at LEAST concede that it would have made some more sense that they'd waited, but no, he argues that their votes were perfectly understandable, justifiable, and even comendable.

That's the way I see the Sally and Lottie votes too. I don't know whether tp is a SoE, but I flat-out disagree with him on this. And it feels likely that there's a SoE among the three of them.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, and regarding the term "baddie"– I still refuse to submit to the phantom's dictum that we should speak of the village as "evil" and the wolves (Elves) as "good". Too confusing. I've been in reversed-alignment villages before, and we didn't do that.

I've been having a hard time with that too. Why make things more confusing than necessary?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That said, in any case, I would like to urge the "common folk" to continue participating as much as we can, even continue toDay as if it was a normal Day and we ourselves were supposed to vote - I think that way, the extended 48-hour Day's full potential can be used.

I don't want the non-reps to just switch off in the latter half of the Day either. For that reason, I don't like Boro's saying he was pretty much done with toDay.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Then to the rep choices... I kind of like them, but I have a feeling there's at least one if not two SoE among them simply because so many people I think innocent are NOT among the reps. I'm not too happy about phantom and me having more power than the others, but it's better that there's the two of us.

I think it's likely SoE's managed to get at least one of themselves elected. Why wouldn't they? But having a larger number of voting reps gives us more to work with toMorrow.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I would rather not attempt lynching tp toDay (unless there is stuff to point at his guilt) because it would further make the whole Day concentrate on him because he has a substantial amount of the total votes and he has made it quite clear he is going to use them to protect himself, which will potentially just cause damage in the form of making a random and ill-advised lynch.

Vexing as tp is, I don't think he should be the sole focus for the rest of toDay, and I don't know I'd vote for his lynch. But I probably would go for him, Sally, or Lottie.

[Nerwen]

Hey, was the site down for anyone else?

[wilwarin538]

So class was a bit more interactive than usual, and I therefore couldn't really go my computer, and then my lunch brake kind of got stolen from me, now I have another class and my laptop is dying and people have already claimed all the outlits. So you won't be hearing anything from me for a couple more hours. Sorry, just bad luck today for computer time (I usually have so much!).

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Izzy

They placed their votes, with what I believe to be no thought of your possible alignment or the outcome.

But I have no clue about the alignment of my rep either (Cel). And you don't know what your rep's alignment is. And when it comes to hunches, we have zero kills and lynches to help us decide and haven't reached a stopping point (night) where we can go back and reread the day's action.

Can you people please grasp this? The difference on Day 1 of rep-voting between voting first and voting last is extremely minimal! Now, if you're a SoE and you've been hatching plans for various ways to influence the rep voting I'm sure it makes you downright livid when some misbehaving orc votes before you've had the chance to work your charms on them. Well sorry, but that's just tough luck for you.

Originally Posted by Izzy

How is my vote better than theirs? I actually gave it thought, and used it to try and counter what they started in motion.

Oh come on, you walked straight into a point I made earlier- the fact that other votes have merely been, as you stated, a reaction or counter to the first votes! Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

I mean, seriously- all of you people are taking these Day 1 rep votes way too seriously at this stage. Last time we did this it was more like, "Hey, so and so never says anything. I think I'll force them to show up and vote by making them a rep on this first day." You people are just way too anxious to grasp at things.

Rune- happy to see someone else who is skeptical of old Boro. We need to be watching him.

Originally Posted by Nog

Why did you defend Sally & Lottie as ones who made a bright and intentional move in the beginning (which intention of theirs you explained to us in quite a detail instead of letting them tell us why they voted for you) but have now lapsed back into just talking about statistics?

Why did you first talk of their votes for you as something you triggered as a part of your masterplan but after being pointed out about the time-flaw (especially concerning Sally), have stayed quiet about it?

Regarding the first paragraph, I tried to focus more on the actual outcome of the vote (did they vote an orc?) after I saw that no one was grasping the idea about Sally and Lottie actually being quite useful in kick-starting things and shaking and moving and spurring everyone on.

Making that sort of argument actually makes it look like I'm calling the votes overall good, but obviously everyone was too stuck in their thinking to stomach that, so I figured I was asking for a bit much and started concentrating more on showing why their votes were not bad. I mistakenly thought that it would be easier for people to see that point.

And how exactly did I not trigger Lottie? I did. Sally on the other hand- she did what falls into my first argument quite well. She jumped in and immediately fired a shot. So well done.

Or are you referencing where I stated, "I got the vote train rolling". I wasn't implying that I had somehow posted before Sally's vote, but rather I had in mind the simple fact that I was the one openly asking for votes plus I had received the first two votes. Isn't that enough to be able to claim that I got the train rolling?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The way phantom keeps changing his mind about what his "ploy" was supposed to accomplish (sorry, don't have time to quote now) is quite eyebrow-raising

I'm not changing it, dearie, it just had many layers to it, some of which have yet to be revealed.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Vexing as tp is, I don't think he should be the sole focus for the rest of toDay, and I don't know I'd vote for his lynch. But I probably would go for him, Sally, or Lottie.

The way phantom keeps changing his mind about what his "ploy" was supposed to accomplish (sorry, don't have time to quote now) is quite eyebrow-raising, but unless he does something impossibly Elfish, he's pretty safe from the lynch toDay (with his three votes). And Lottie is puzzling me quite a lot. But then, in the opposite corner, there is also Boro– it's true he's being strange too, though I'd want to see more of him.

Oh, and Mirandir. Her vote was weird.

Back later.

EDIT:Added comment.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, and Mirandir. Her vote was weird.

As eye-roll-inducing as Mira's vote was, it was probably too reckless to be something a Mirandelf would do.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Your response has nothing to do with my statement. I did not say L & S had the same number of posts to read over when they voted, but rather that they knew the same exact amount when they voted. Actual knowledge. Something you can bank on. Reading through five pages of "I don't like those early votes!" and "I don't like Phantom!" and "You're wrong!" and "Let's not split votes!" does not qualify as gaining actual real knowledge. You can try and form a hunch based upon such things, but that is all.

You can't simply disregard what can be gained by reading the things that people say, either. I simply do not understand why you're doing so, and saying that we should do the same.

Legate's #206 makes me uneasy - it's a relatively large post that says nothing but the obvious, as if he's participating but not really.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'm glad Shasta has taken up me and Greenie's crusade against phantom's silly arguments so I don't need to concentrate on it any longer, haha.

Pish. "Taken up"? I believe I started the whole thing, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by Rune

I love it my self, I seldom make as much sense as in that particular post. Of course this is because I did not write that post. . . You are infact basing your opinion of me on something Folwren said.

...
...
...
Whoops. I feel like a lamebrain now, for sure.

Edit: X'ed with phorc.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Now, if you're a SoE and you've been hatching plans for various ways to influence the rep voting I'm sure it makes you downright livid when some misbehaving orc votes before you've had the chance to work your charms on them. Well sorry, but that's just tough luck for you.

Now you're chainsawing, Phantom. Come on. You can do better than that. Trying to lash back against those who find you suspicious by calling them suspicious (which is what you're doing) is a baddie hallmark.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

Last I checked, this game was about catching Elves, not 'proving Phantom right'. Whether or not you are correct about whether or not Day 1 voting is flimsy is highly irrelevant. The point here is that Izzy gave her vote some thought, whereas Sally and Lottie did not (although given Lottie's defense of her vote, which I'm going to go back and read again, I may change my opinion on her).

Edit: X'ed with Bororc.

[Folwren]

I'd say that Mirandir's vote was more annoying than suspicious, really. If she had indeed read next to nothing and paid next to no attention to what was going on, then little wonder she voted for Phantom. Chances are, she was acting flippantly, like most people do on day one, and was running with Phantom's joke. If it had not been for the fact that the discussion about Phantom's voters had been going on all day, her vote would have been perfectly acceptable as a first day sort of jokingness. I don't think Mirandir is worthy of lynching.

And after spending a considerable amount of time reading lots of posts, I have nothing further to say and no more time to say it in. We've practically beaten the Sally-and-Lottie-baseless-votes-for-phantom issue to death, so I'll leave it be.

I'm off. And may not be back on much at all before deadline.

X-posted with Lommy and Shasta.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

You can't simply disregard what can be gained by reading the things that people say, either. I simply do not understand why you're doing so, and saying that we should do the same.

I'm not telling you to disregard what people say! By all means, try to gain a feel for people. I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Now, if you're a SoE and you've been hatching plans for various ways to influence the rep voting I'm sure it makes you downright livid when some misbehaving orc votes before you've had the chance to work your charms on them. Well sorry, but that's just tough luck for you.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Now you're chainsawing, Phantom. Come on.

*snicker*
I did that on purpose, laddie. Poking the beehive, so to speak, just to see what reactions I got (outrage or glossing over or ignoring etc). A part of me is truly curious if any of the attackers of those ladies are truly of that mindset, but I'm fully aware odds are it isn't the case with most.

Oh, and just because I am evil, here is a quote from me at the very beginning of the last voting republic style game we did with Fea-

Originally Posted by me, WW LIII

I bet if we made a list of suspects right now, before anyone has even started talking, we'd be just as accurate as we would be at sundown.

Encouraging thought, yes?

To which you replied-

Originally Posted by Shasta, WW LIII

More like pessimistic thought, but sadly you're probably correct.

See? You used to agree with me about this sort of thing.

And Folwren, m'dear, you actually proved my points quite nicely when you were talking about Mira.

Originally Posted by Folwren

Chances are, she was acting flippantly, like most people do on day one, and was running with Phantom's joke. If it had not been for the fact that the discussion about Phantom's voters had been going on all day, her vote would have been perfectly acceptable as a first day sort of jokingness.

Thank you!! This has been my entire point all along, Fol! You just said most people act flippantly on Day 1, and you also said that Day 1 joke votes are perfectly acceptable!

That's what I've been arguing the whole time! That this sort of thing is just fine within the scope of Werewolfing and is usually not treated so seriously by so many people! So, there now people. Now that you've seen someone on your side admit to my entire premise (two people actually if you count Shasta from last game), are you able to see where I'm coming from here?

Now I'm just left wondering- are so many people having the same unusual reaction to this due to some sort of plan, or is it simply the lemming effect that is quite common in these contests?