Dragon appreciation thread

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by skip spence

The tendency among artists seems to be guana/dinosaur-like creatures that walk upright with strong legs even though Tolkien clearly described long and slithering serpent-like dragons.

That's.. a matter of contention (emphasis added):

Originally Posted by Tolkien, St . Andrews, and Dragons, page 9

The original impression of The Hobbit in 1937 had contained no colored pictures, but the second English impression of the same year and the first American edition in 1938 included five colored pictures by Tolkien, one of which was entitled “O Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities,” Bilbo Baggins’s words to the dragon in chapter 12—an illustration now more familiarly known as Conversation with Smaug and completed by Tolkien in July 1937.

In this familiar picture we see the dragon lying on his heap of treasure, with his belly toward the top of the pile, so that he is lying curled downwards, with his head resting on the hoard, smoke issuing from his nostrils and his ears pointed and alert, his right clawed foot extended.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Raynor

That's.. a matter of contention (emphasis added):

You are referring to this painting I believe. In any case, I never claimed Tolkien's long-worms do not have legs, I only said that they did not walk upright like a dinosaur, rather crawled on the ground like a snake or possibly a lizard, at least in the case of Glaurung. And looking at Tolkien's Smaug, it kind of looks like he might have two pairs of legs (one of the hind legs can be guessed behind the pile of gold near his left wing?). But this is not a very convincing dragon anatomically, is it? You could imagine him walking/crawling like a lizard, but hardly flying... For that, the wings are much too small and positioned far too close to his head.

[Raynor]

But this is not a very convincing dragon anatomically, is it?

I don't think this is a pertinent issue tbh. Dragons can employ forces which are far outside the realm of normal humans, and they may very well use those forces when flying, or why not, walking. I don't think there is any part of them which is reducible to normal terms. True, a lizard of their size would likely not walk upon its legs, but crawl instead; but said lizard will also not be able to talk or breath fire, due to lacking the specific powers of the dragons. You might say that dragons have an irreducible complexity ^^

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Dragons can employ forces which are far outside the realm of normal humans, and they may very well use those forces when flying, or why not, walking.

Yes but Ray, your argument is beginning to look contrived. My point is that Tolkien describes long, crawling, serpent-like creatures and that artists typically miss or ignore this. But the images you've provided are not of ME dragons anyway, it seems...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Admirably done, good Raynor! Here is a worthy thread. Not long ago I was asked the eternal question: if you could have anything, would you choose?

I replied, without hesitation: "A dragon."

In fact, the only thing I'd rather have is more dragons. A whole gang of them. What is the collective term for dragons anyway?

[Raynor]

Yes but Ray, your argument is beginning to look contrived.

Well, I don't bother explaining magic tbh; they are magical creature, I would expect their expression in the physical realm to be more than ordinary, starting from their anatomy if you will.

My point is that Tolkien describes long, crawling, serpent-like creatures and that artists typically miss or ignore this.

Well, I don't know, if his own picture shows his first and famous dragon as having feet, then all the rest is not out of bounds tbh

But the images you've provided are not of ME dragons anyway, it seems...

I agree, I chose to be more liberal in my selection of images, hence the subforum. Only to serve the purpose of the thread! Also, there are lots of common streaks in all the awesome visualizations of dragons, including Tolkien's

What is the collective term for dragons anyway?

Dragonflight, wing of dragons, or, according to Anne McCaffrey, a weyr of dragons. My favorite is dragonflight ^^