Chess in Middle Earth ?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

. Obviously he knows what Gandalf was talking about, but I don't recall reading that one of the passions of hobbits was chess.

Chess is far from a passion of mine - don't have the right sort of brain but I am aware of it, the names of the pieces a few terms such as gambit and checkmate - and maybe hobbits aren't inclined either to such strategic thinking..however I agree that it is most likely that there was a chess type game in middle earth (since there are so many "battle games" in our own and the chess terms are substituting for terms for this unknown game. This is good translation practice. It is longer than I want to think about since I studied translation technique but I remember for example if you want to translate "The quick brown fox.." into French,you don't translate literally since it makes no sense in the target language since le renard rapide isn't a pangram in French. You have to use a common French pangram such as Zoe ma grande fille veux que je boive ce whiskey dont je ne veux pas.

So Tolkien using chess analogies is explainable as part of the translation conceit.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

You have to use a common French pangram such as Zoe ma grande fille veux que je boive ce whiskey dont je ne veux pas.

Just for giggles, what does that actually translate to in English? (obviously not a pangram after translation - just curious what it says)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Just for giggles, what does that actually translate to in English? (obviously not a pangram after translation - just curious what it says)

I think it means something like "My big girl Zoe wants me to drink this whiskey but I don't want to drink it". Now Mithalwen can come and laugh at me for my horrible (*almost unexistent*) knowledge of French.

[Mithalwen]

Not bad at all Galadriel. There are alternatives for grande fille coould be Zoe my tall/ grown-up daughter ... or possibly waitress ...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I agree that it is most likely that there was a chess type game in middle earth (since there are so many "battle games" in our own and the chess terms are substituting for terms for this unknown game.

I wonder what their battle-games pieces were called. Post-LOTR could have names such as Gandalf, Elessar, Denethor, Faramir, etc. And on the other side there woud be Witch-king, Gothmog, orcs, Mumakil, etc



Imagine this: hey, your orc ate my Gandalf! UNCANONICAL!

[Elemmakil]

Pity someone didn't bring this up whilst the good Professor was still alive - knowing him, he would have come up with details on ALL the pieces!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Elemmakil

Pity someone didn't bring this up whilst the good Professor was still alive - knowing him, he would have come up with details on ALL the pieces!

I second that. Oh, and there would also be a History of Chess in M-E series.

[Rumil]

As Aiwendil says,

I'd guess that this refers to some 'chess-like' game. Indeed the Prof's beloved Anglo-Saxons, the Norse and Celtic nations all apparently played some variant of the 'Tafl' game.

Interesting wiki page here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafl_games

For Pratchett-readers, the game Thud was inspired by these.

No idea if the hobbits ever played 'Cripple Mr. Onion' or sang a song about what's on the end of a wizard's staff though!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Rumil

As Aiwendil says,

I'd guess that this refers to some 'chess-like' game. Indeed the Prof's beloved Anglo-Saxons, the Norse and Celtic nations all apparently played some variant of the 'Tafl' game.

Interesting wiki page here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafl_games

Great article! I see hobbits playing "escape the Nazgul" with this sort of game!

[Aiwendil]

There's also a good tafl site here, with an applet to play various versions.