Istari and their staves

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I I think that since [Gandalf] used ALL his power to defeat the Balrog, he didn't have any strength to stay alive. … I don't think that his death was a punishment for revealling himself as a Maia at a time of need… Gandalf was went back to ME to complete his task, so I think that the Valar and Eru totally approved of Gandalf's choice. …

I agree. That’s why I posited that his death

Originally Posted by Alcuin

was the natural outcome of his decision to “fight like a Maia”

To clarify – and concur –, I was not suggesting that it was some kind of “punishment”, but rather the natural outcome of using all his powers in the “shape weak and humble” to which he was confined; and perhaps that would have been the outcome even had he retained the physical form he’d used in Valinor.

But since this thread is about his wizard’s staff, it has been noted already that Gandalf’s staff was an ex-staff by this point. I don’t think he was “missing” any of his power when he fought the Balrog.

So what did Gandalf’s breaking his staff signify? He did not intend to die: what would have been the outcome without the staff? Could he just pick up another one anywhere in the woods? Did the staff of an Istar need somehow to be consecrated?

-|-

As first conceived, I think it may be that a wizard’s staff was merely a “staff of office.” In Treason of Isengard, chapter “Flotsam And Jetsam” (remember, this is a draft of Two Towers), one of the earlier versions said,

Gandalf demands [Saruman’s] staff of office. He refuses; then Gandalf orders him to be shut up [in Orthanc].

Later in ToI, in the chapter “Voice Of Saruman” (again, this is not the finished tale of TT), CJRT says that

in the original sketches … Saruman was not in his tower, Gandalf took his staff from him and broke it with his hands

And footnote 6 to this chapter says that in one draft Gandalf advises Treebeard, “with the Key of Orthanc and his staff [Saruman] must not be allowed to escape.”

-|-


There are at least two other broken staffs in Lord of the Rings. For now, I impute no associations with the breaking of Gandalf’s or Saruman’s staffs, but I report them so that they might be useful to the general discussion.

1. In TT in “Shelob's Lair”, Sam broke the stout walking staff that Faramir gave him across Gollum’s back. This staff seems to be purely utilitarian. The description Tolkien gives us is,

   The staff cracked and broke.

   Compare that to the TT final published “Voice of Saruman”, where JRRT describes Gandalf’s breaking Saruman’s staff:

   There was a crack, and the staff split asunder in Saruman's hand, and the head of it fell…

   And in FotR, “The Bridge of Khazad-dûm”, the description used is

   The staff broke asunder and fell from his hand.

   My point is that the description of Sam’s breaking his purely utilitarian staff over Gollum’s back is similar to the breaking of Gandalf’s and Saruman’s staffs.
   
   
2. In RotK, “Pyre of Denethor”, Denethor lit a fire, climbed onto the funerary table in its midst, broke his staff of office over his knee, and cast the broken remains into the blaze. Here the staff, although likely quite old, was purely symbolic. Later in “The Steward and the King”, Faramir handed Aragorn “a white rod” as the symbol of his office of Steward, which Aragorn took (emphasizing that the office of Steward was Aragorn’s to bestow), gave the stewardship to Faramir as an hereditary office (the House of Húrin had at first remained stewards by consensus among the uneasy nobles), which he symbolized by returning the white rod to Faramir.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Whatever the case, we do know that Gandalf wasn't the only one with a staff, as Saruman had one that was broken when he was cast from the order. And if Saruman is to be believed, all five Istari had staves, since when he accuses Gandalf of wanting greater power, he refers to the staffs of the Five Wizards. To me, it makes sense that they are emblems of their office

I seem to have totally forgotten that in my last post post. That's what happens when you're on the 'Downs at almost 2AM...

Still I think my second point still stands about him being more associated with his staff in the eyes of Men. Because he travelled a lot and never stayed in one place, they would see him with his staff all the time, serving the dual purpose of just being useful for walking and as a symbol of his position in the order (which he'd have to take with him all the time as he doesn't have anywhere to stay).

Saruman, on the other hand, lives in Orthanc, and so probably wouldn't carry around his staff all the time.


As for the purpose of the staff itself, I'd say it did mostly act as a sign of one's position in the Order. However I do think it also aided with "magic", in particular the "non-native" magic of the wizard. I'm not sure what his natural power would be (it's quite vague), but I don't think the flashes of light(ning?) he used against the Nazgul at Weathertop were part of it, and I assume that the staff, as a symbol of authority, would allow him to more easily do "magic" that wasn't entirely natural to him. So basically, while acting as a reminderto (and maybe actually acting to) limit his power, it would give him authority over things that he wouldn't normally have, just as I think Narya would help him with fire.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

[B][i]So what did Gandalf’s breaking his staff signify?

Well, with the staff being the symbol of Gandalf's role in the Order, I assume breaking the staff effectively meant ending his role as the Grey. I'm not sure whether this means that if he didn't die he'd have to ask the Valar to reaffirm his position as the Grey, he knew he would die, or what it meant for the rest of the short time before his death. Would he only be able to use his own "native" power (as well as Narsil and Glamdring) against the Balrog? Would all the "magic words of command" still work?

I also think he would lose his authority as an Istar, so he wouldn't be able to break another wizard's staff or expel them from the order unless he was sent back.

[Galadriel55]

It's possible that the lightnings that Gandalf keeps using come from Narya, not his original power or the staff.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

It's possible that the lightnings that Gandalf keeps using come from Narya, not his original power or the staff.

Possibly, but not conclusively.

In any case, it does not explain Gandalf’s description of what happened to him during the battle. He was burned. He was drowned. He was frozen. He was strangled. Perhaps one of the great among the Eldar could have survived such an ordeal; I don’t believe a Man could. He fought despite all, dealing out as well as he received and more, because the Balrog fled from him. He doesn’t seem to have been greatly diminished because he lost his staff: he was strong enough to defeat the last surviving Balrog in Middle-earth.

Tolkien doesn’t say that Saruman was diminished in power when Gandalf the White broke his staff. He was stripped of authority, cast from the White Council and from the Order of the Istari, as well as from his positions of leadership. And later on, Saruman did get himself another staff: he was leaning on it when Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, and the hobbits came upon him in Dunland. I don’t recall that he had it at Bag End, where he does indeed seem to have been much diminished in power, though he retained his ability to daunt and frighten the folk of Hobbiton.

At this point, I think a wizard’s staff is undoubtedly a symbol of authority: the name “Gandalf” is appropriate, “Elf of the Wand” where “wand” might be interpreted as “rod” of authority. In that sense, when Gandalf broke Saruman’s staff and cast him from the Order of Istari, he might not only have stripped him of authority, but stripped him of some of his abilities to exercise his power in Middle-earth. I think that he could do that as “Gandalf the White, who has returned from death,” plenipotentiary of the Valar and perhaps in this regard of Eru Himself.

But it seems to me there must be something else going on with a wizard’s staff. When Gandalf offered terms to Saruman, he demanded the Key of Orthanc – Saruman was no longer a trustworthy keeper of a strategic asset of Gondor, not even in time of peace but particularly so in time of war – and Saruman’s staff. He explained that, “They shall be pledges of your conduct, to be returned later, if you merit them.” Without them, Saruman was free to go even to Mordor. I can understand Saruman’s reluctance to give up Orthanc as a power-mad would-be dictator: he libraries, archives, machinery, prepared materials – all the things he needed to wage war and project power – were there. He would be impoverished and left dependent upon others. (Gandalf seems in contrast to have assumed a vow of poverty, like a travelling friar: he seems to have had few possessions.) But Gandalf’s insistence upon having his staff was what fired Saruman’s pride and hate.

But look for a moment at Saruman’s angry refusal. The “Keys of Barad-dûr” match the Keys of Orthanc – control over things and wealth. The “crowns of seven kings” match the “rods of the Five Wizards” – and crowns are not instruments but symbols of royal power.

So I don’t know. I am undecided. I think there must be more to a wizard’s staff than mere symbolism, unless Gandalf’s breaking Saruman’s staff was a physical symbol of his stripping him not only of authority but also of either his power or – better yet – his ability to exercise that power.