WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That's not to say that Zil's post didn't make me paranoid about him instantly, quite the opposite. Someone who starts the Day with first post saying "both the kills have something to do with me" is either insane or weird.

Actually, I got a good feeling about him from it. As a wolf, I would expect Zil not to draw quite that much attention to that. As an innocent, it's something I could see him doing - I get more of a "that's interesting" (I'm envisioning that the way Jack Sparrow said it ) type of feel than a "this must make me innocent" type of feel.

EDIT: xed with Rikae

[Loslote]

As for the Sally wagon, there was a lot of xing going on. For instance, at the time I voted, I thought only one other person had voted for her, and that a while ago. I also noticed a lot of people marking their cross posts, so it's possible that very few of us actually knew what we were doing. I don't think there was an intentional "let's all gand up and kill Sally" bandwagon, more of an "I'll vote Sally, and maybe other people will too, maybe not" bandwagon. If that makes any sense.

EDIT: xed with Skip

EDITEDIT: Legate's right; I crossed with Eomer, not Skip

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Initial thoughts: Ozban is an interesting kill as players tend to leave those who haven't played for a while alive - unless there's a good reason. Definite Seer hint in there, eh? Eh?

If you find that hint in Ozzy's post, I am going to give you a medal. (And then probably lynch you, since I can't see an innocent seeing a Seer see-saw see... something there.)

Originally Posted by Loslote

As for the Sally wagon, there was a lot of xing going on. For instance, at the time I voted, I thought only one other person had voted for her, and that a while ago. I also noticed a lot of people marking their cross posts, so it's possible that very few of us actually knew what we were doing. I don't think there was an intentional "let's all gand up and kill Sally" bandwagon, more of an "I'll vote Sally, and maybe other people will too, maybe not" bandwagon. If that makes any sense.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me (just hope that it is not so that all WWs voted for sally and x-posted at the same point, which would be terribly funny, but it's known to have happened at least twice in my last game) and also makes Lottie sound innocent.

But okay, now I am going to post this and if I haven't x-posted with anybody (or if I did but they said nothing of immediate interest to me), I will REALLY go to sleep!

EDIT: going No offence to the concerned one, it was a good enough post, but not needing an immediate comment

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, I've read through all posts of Kath and Ozban.

Kath's posts could hardly look less like those of a Seer. She mentions everyone in vague terms, and in her last post she suspects three people for (admittedly soft)in-game reasons. She votes Inzi, but... no - I don't buy it. Strange kill. Maybe they simply feared her wolf-hunting powers.

Ozban did speak some verses; wolves don't like that kind of thing - it gives them the creeps. Makes them think a gifted's at work. He also votes for Nessa, not for any very obvious reason.

I had already been getting a wolvish feeling from Nessa yesterday (hence my vote).

[Blind Guardian]

HEY LOOK! I'M STILL ALIVE! IT'S A MIRACLE!

Anyways, I wasn't really here yesterday, so I have no clue what happened. But, bandwagoning Sally...I'll be back.

[Rikae]

My thoughts after looking over the last couple decades:

Kath's post number 38 says "ANWOLFWITS" in the margin.

Sally's mention of the previous game indeed explicitly referred to it, I see, and she went on about it, and the
possible disadvantages of mentioning it, at some length. Nonetheless, no one suspects her or mentions it for
quite a while, including Wilwa, who responds to Sally's post an hour later with banter, not suspicion. Lommy mentions
her soon after as "fishy" but doesn't give a reason. Twenty minutes later Wilwa has problems with Sally's post (number
116), but these are a lack of explanation on her Kitanna-comment and "mis-representing" Skip's point about the seer.
In number 123, Wilwa puts Sally at the top of her list for:

the incorrect representation of what Skip said about the Seer, and the fact that she seems to be a bit all over
the place with dislikes and likes, either by going from liking someone to not, or some are just a "yay, this
person is shiny" or "no, I don't like this", without really giving any reasons. I know all that is a bit
superficial, and on it's own I wouldn't likely suspect her, but that isn't all I have against her....so yeah,
I'm really suspecting her right now.

And in 129 she votes her with no further explanation.

For previously (mostly) stated reasons.

"

So, Wilwa not mentioning the fact that Sally mentioned the possible cobbler-hinting, lest the cobbler notice.
Looks very shiny toDay, but I wonder why she wouldn't do her best to get Sally lynched if she thought it was such a good case against her, in favor of trying to hide something already in the open. Hers was the first vote for Sally, after all.

While I'm rereading, I'd like to know what Nessa means when she
says of me:

She got quite jumpy after being called out, and
hastily backtracked, which seems really strange to me, not to mention how much discussion and sidetracking
has resulted from her first post about Pitch. Perfect opportunity for a wolf.

I don't believe I've played with you before, Nessa, but trust me, I was nothing of the sort ("jumpy" when "called out"), and if I wanted to
come up with a case against Pitch, I easily could. That suspicion was based on nothing more than an uneasy feeling, as I said, and mentioned solely to gauge reactions. One of the reactions I was looking for was one like yours.

Ok, so anyway, in 151 Skip votes for Sally based on an "icky feeling" about her "misrepresenting his words", which
could be taken directly from Wilwa. Seems a little contrived.

Lottie votes for Sally on a hunch, which is the best reason so far! It's also, of course, a piece of cake to hide behind.

Lommy votes for Sally since it "might work out", then has second thoughts two minutes later. Seems an innocentish
waffle to me, but I'm unsure of the reasons behind her vote at this point.

Wilwa chastises Agan for mentioning the cobbler hint thing, gives it as the reason she voted for Sally.
All of this doesn't ease my mind about Wilwa: were she a wolf, she could still have done what she did. Sally was
in no real danger when she voted for her, making her a safe choice even as a suspected cobbler for a wolf.

[Pitchwife]

Ozzy not only voted for Nessa, he actually started the suspicion against her by pointing at her remark about "Rikae knowing things", and she was pretty much the single constant person he suspected all Day. If Nessa's a wolf, I think they could have thought he was the Seer. He also said once or twice he wouldn't vote/suspect Legate, which they could have interpreted as Ozzy had dreamt him innocent.

And sorry, Nessa, I don't quite buy this:

Originally Posted by Nessa

Oh wow, my Rikae post has been completely misinterpreted. The seer reveal has already been discussed as unhelpful to the village, has it not? My hint was that if she knows something we don't, it's suspicious. After all, the wolves all know something we don't: who to kill.

Can't really explain why, but it just sounds like retcon damage control to me.

The problem with this is, for a Nessa Wolfrunya to think Rikae could be the Seer based on Rikae's remark about me, I'd have to be her packmate, which I'm not (although it would explain why she defended me against it), so this theory collapses in itself. She could, however, still be the cobbler erroneously thinking Rikae had spotted a Pitchwolf - in which case I'd say she's not the prime priority toDay, as we still need to get a wolf to reduce the Night-kills.

(x-ed with Rikae herself)

[Rikae]

You know (I mixed her up with Lottie - oops) I never said Nessa was suspicious. I didn't think she was. I was admonishing her for what looked like a newbie error - apparently it wasn't, and she found me suspicious for "knowing something", which makes... no sense at all.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

The problem with this is, for a Nessa Wolfrunya to think Rikae could be the Seer based on Rikae's remark about me, I'd have to be her packmate, which I'm not (although it would explain why she defended me against it), so this theory collapses in itself.

Assuming you're not.

It's also possible she was a wolf looking for an easy lynch, and thought that I, with my mysterious and creepy ways, would be an easy target.

[Cailín]

Honestly though, why would a wolf be actively looking for an easy lynch? Far more sensible to just go with the flow and come up with a mildly credible explanation afterwards. Or baiting - and then passing it off as the smart ploy of an ordinary villager. Rikae?

I do agree Nessa looks fairly bad after Ozban's untimely end.

[Blind Guardian]

Originally Posted by Cailín

Honestly though, why would a wolf be actively looking for an easy lynch? Far more sensible to just go with the flow and come up with a mildly credible explanation afterwards. Or baiting - and then passing it off as the smart ploy of an ordinary villager. Rikae?

I do agree Nessa looks fairly bad after Ozban's untimely end.

Because last Night it was 20 against 4. 4/20=2/10=1/5 (don't lynch me for doing math!) For them not good odds and on Day 1 they might have thought that they could give a lousy excuse and get away with it. Well, that would be my reasoning.

[Pitchwife]

Just went through Kath's posts, nothing Seerish there in my eye. Her longest post #130 was basically a lot of summarizing with only the odd bit of comment here and there. Her vote for Zil seems to have been based mostly on

Originally Posted by Kath #133

faintly shoddy reasoning against Pitch compared to everyone else and he came to it late.

which Zil actually addressed himself here:

Originally Posted by Zil #48

I'll probably be accused of latching onto the suspicion on Pitch, but he somewhat bothers me too. This feels a bit forced.

And this feels a bit self-conscious, if you don't mind my saying so. As does your first post toDay. I just don't see what the wolves hoped to gain with these particular two kills if Zil's one of them: cast suspicion on him by killing Kath while at the same time corroborating his suspicion of Nessa by killing Ozzy??? Nah, doesn't make sense as far as I can see. So I'd think Kath was most probably a classic no trace kill.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Cailín

Honestly though, why would a wolf be actively looking for an easy lynch? Far more sensible to just go with the flow and come up with a mildly credible explanation afterwards. Or baiting - and then passing it off as the smart ploy of an ordinary villager. Rikae?

I do agree Nessa looks fairly bad after Ozban's untimely end.

Baiting? Well, you would know.

Seriously, you don't think a wolf would be actively seeking reason for suspicion, but you do think a wolf would make a completely unfounded accusation that leaves her open to easy attack? Why?